Eddowes in Wandsworth Prison

[Debra A]

Just noticed that the 1872 and 73 Wandswoth photograph volumes are searchable by name on the National Archives website and there are no results for Eddowes

[Debra A]

Gary
It's a shame that the only surviving photograph albums for Wandsworth prison are from 1872 and 73 otherwise there may have been a photograph of Catherine Eddowes in them.
I wonder if there's a tiny chance she may be if one of those two volumes if her one of her possible 13 previous convictions was in either of those two years and she was also imprisoned in Wandsworth at that time?

I've recently seen photograph albums from Oxford Goal in the 1870's and the quality of the photographs was amazing. Half the photographs were of children, which was quite sad to see.

[MrBarnett]

It's always cheek except for the cherry entry, so that must be cheek too - unless she was attacked by the Phantom Raspberry Blower.

Her complexion was described as 'ruddy', so it was a ruddy cheek.

[Robert]

It's always cheek except for the cherry entry, so that must be cheek too - unless she was attacked by the Phantom Raspberry Blower.

[MrBarnett]

The 1876 conviction for Charlotte looked like it described a 'scar on right cherry'!
It also said she had a 'letter S' on her left arm. I imagine that the 'letter' would be a tattoo similar to Catherine's 'TC'
Charlotte had 3 previous conviction in 76 but doesn't seem to have any recorded in 78 so maybe they just weren't that reliable at recording everything previous accurately?

Yes, it definitely says 'cherry' - strange!

As I mentioned elsewhere, Thomas Fogarty's previous is inconsistently recorded in the Wandsworth registers. 12 in 1897, then 6 in April, 1899. He's back again in July, 1899, a mere week after being released, and no previous is recorded. You'd think they might have remembered him - just how many vicious blind beggars did they lock up each week?

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

Gary

The 1876 conviction for Charlotte looked like it described a 'scar on right cherry'!
It also said she had a 'letter S' on her left arm. I imagine that the 'letter' would be a tattoo similar to Catherine's 'TC'
Charlotte had 3 previous conviction in 76 but doesn't seem to have any recorded in 78 so maybe they just weren't that reliable at recording everything previous accurately?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gary
I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...

Hi Debs,

It's possible, I suppose, but Charlotte was recorded as 'Buckingham or Eddows' and as you say she was a smaller woman with a scar on her right cheek (I hope!) and something else on her left arm. (Is that a T for tattoo or an S for scar?). Presumably the previous convictions info came via the court.

I did wonder whether the Conway/Eddowes confusion might have lead to Kate's tally being understated in '78.

Gary

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

Gary

Hi Gary
I mentioned Charlotte Eddowes on forums because I wondered if there was some sort of confusion of the two women regarding previous records and convictions? It's probably unlikely but the two women do have things in common. Both were arrested for public order offences in the street, one in Lambeth one in Southwark. Charlotte was the same age as Catherine and although more petite; Charlotte also had a letter tattooed on her left arm and a scar (which I can't determine the exact whereabouts of...it looks like it says scar on her cherry!). Charlotte was sent to convicted one month before Catherine in 1878 and also in 1876.

I was wondering if there was a chance that officials flicking through registers for previous court appearances maybe Charlotte's previous tally brought Eddowes up or down? Looking at Charlotte's convictions though she has 3, so the confusion idea maybe doesn't follow...

[Pcdunn]

Very nice! These little things all help us learn more about Jack's victims, and understand them better.

[Joshua Rogan]

Good stuff!

If I stare for long enough at Foster's mortuary sketches, I can almost convince myself that they show what might be an inch-long scar touching the outside of Kate's right eyebrow.

[GUT]

Very sweet find.

Thanks for sharing.

[rjpalmer]

Nice work.

[MrBarnett]

I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.

Hi Debs,

There's no doubt in my mind. The thing that bugs me, though, is the discrepancy between the 13 and 2 previous convictions.

As you say, the child who entered Wandsworth with her must have been the infant Frederick.

Gary

[Ginger]

What a remarkable find!

[Debra A]

I don't think there is any doubt that you found 'our' Catherine Eddowes in both cases, Gary?
The unnamed child you mention tallies well with Catherine giving birth to a son named Frederick Willliam in 1877.