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What if Goulston St Graffito was photographed?

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  • What if Goulston St Graffito was photographed?

    Assuming the ripper wrote the Goulston St message and Charles Warren had it photographed before washing it out, it's my opinion we may have been able to determine the following:

    1) Possible height of murderer.

    2) Compare handwriting samples with numerous letters and other documents with known suspects.

    3) Maybe get a better idea of the rippers possible trade. (How common was it for the average person in East End to have chalk? Also, would a specific trade enable a person access to chalk such as a butcher, medical student, Doctor, upholsterer, etc.

    4) Potential education level of murderer based on grammar of the graffito.

    5) Possibly more accurate radius of killers residence or place of business based on the rippers exit route.

    Interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.

  • #2
    Originally posted by dantheman View Post
    Assuming the ripper wrote the Goulston St message and Charles Warren had it photographed before washing it out, it's my opinion we may have been able to determine the following:

    1) Possible height of murderer.

    2) Compare handwriting samples with numerous letters and other documents with known suspects.

    3) Maybe get a better idea of the rippers possible trade. (How common was it for the average person in East End to have chalk? Also, would a specific trade enable a person access to chalk such as a butcher, medical student, Doctor, upholsterer, etc.

    4) Potential education level of murderer based on grammar of the graffito.

    5) Possibly more accurate radius of killers residence or place of business based on the rippers exit route.

    Interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.
    Hi Dan,

    In response to the above;

    1. The height of the writing from the ground wouldn't give us any real data, unless of course one assumes he was writing at eye level while standing.

    2. Due to the uneven surface of the wall, and the height of the writing, there wouldn't be a real opportunity to view the handwriting as something that the author was capable of.

    3. Chalk was used by shopkeepers, tailors, teachers, and likely a myriad of other occupations.

    4. The grammar could have been intentionally misleading.

    5. The writing, and apron section, were not found until over 1 hour after the murder and therefore...not necessarily in the direction the killers residence. In fact, he could have lived up to 20 minutes to 1/2 hour North, South or West of Mitre Square.

    What they did by erasing the writing is eliminate any possibility of anyone ever disputing the message contents....although they didn't end the debate on spelling apparently.
    Michael Richards

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
      Hi Dan,

      In response to the above;

      1. The height of the writing from the ground wouldn't give us any real data, unless of course one assumes he was writing at eye level while standing.

      2. Due to the uneven surface of the wall, and the height of the writing, there wouldn't be a real opportunity to view the handwriting as something that the author was capable of.

      3. Chalk was used by shopkeepers, tailors, teachers, and likely a myriad of other occupations.

      4. The grammar could have been intentionally misleading.

      5. The writing, and apron section, were not found until over 1 hour after the murder and therefore...not necessarily in the direction the killers residence. In fact, he could have lived up to 20 minutes to 1/2 hour North, South or West of Mitre Square.

      What they did by erasing the writing is eliminate any possibility of anyone ever disputing the message contents....although they didn't end the debate on spelling apparently.
      Thanks for clarifying that. I missed the part about message being 36-48 in from the ground. However I still think it would've been beneficial to compare the handwriting and other grammar mistakes, even if they were intentional. One things for certain, if we did have that message photographed it would definatley lead to more speculation.

      Best Regards,

      Dan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dantheman View Post
        Assuming the ripper wrote the Goulston St message and Charles Warren had it photographed before washing it out, it's my opinion we may have been able to determine the following:

        1) Possible height of murderer.

        2) Compare handwriting samples with numerous letters and other documents with known suspects.

        3) Maybe get a better idea of the rippers possible trade. (How common was it for the average person in East End to have chalk? Also, would a specific trade enable a person access to chalk such as a butcher, medical student, Doctor, upholsterer, etc.

        4) Potential education level of murderer based on grammar of the graffito.

        5) Possibly more accurate radius of killers residence or place of business based on the rippers exit route.

        Interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.
        number two most relevant
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dantheman View Post
          Assuming the ripper wrote the Goulston St message and Charles Warren had it photographed before washing it out, it's my opinion we may have been able to determine the following:

          1) Possible height of murderer.

          2) Compare handwriting samples with numerous letters and other documents with known suspects.

          3) Maybe get a better idea of the rippers possible trade. (How common was it for the average person in East End to have chalk? Also, would a specific trade enable a person access to chalk such as a butcher, medical student, Doctor, upholsterer, etc.

          4) Potential education level of murderer based on grammar of the graffito.

          5) Possibly more accurate radius of killers residence or place of business based on the rippers exit route.

          Interested to hear other thoughts on this topic.
          Considering there was a lot of this sort of Graffiti in the area at the time was it even written by the killer?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
            Considering there was a lot of this sort of Graffiti in the area at the time was it even written by the killer?
            Hi John
            Dan in the OP

            Assuming the ripper wrote the Goulston St message
            but anyway, the lots of graffiti around argument is probably the weakest argument against it bein written by the killer.
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • #7
              Still cannot believe that potential evidence was willfully destroyed by the authorities. "Crass stupidity" was the description given by Sir Robert Anderson, and he wasn't wrong. Charles Warren wasn't covering for the Freemasons, but his sympathies for Zionism make you wonder.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                Hi John
                Dan in the OP



                but anyway, the lots of graffiti around argument is probably the weakest argument against it bein written by the killer.
                I'm not sure I agree with that. Although I really doubt it was written by the killer and as I've said before even if it was written by the killer all it does is prove that the killer was either Jewish or not Jewish.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                  Considering there was a lot of this sort of Graffiti in the area at the time was it even written by the killer?
                  Well that's why I wrote assuming the ripper wrote the message.

                  Best Regards,

                  Dan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                    Hi John
                    Dan in the OP
                    Hi Abbey,

                    Whats "OP"?

                    OP= opening statement?
                    Last edited by dantheman; 12-07-2016, 11:01 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi,
                      Forget number 2.
                      When has anyone's chalk writing looked anything like their normal pen and paper writing.?

                      Regards

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spyglass View Post
                        Hi,
                        Forget number 2.
                        When has anyone's chalk writing looked anything like their normal pen and paper writing.?

                        Regards
                        May look a bit sloppier in chalk, however there may be distinct similarities. I wouldn't want to disregard it, especially if I was working the case.

                        Best Regards,

                        Dan
                        Last edited by dantheman; 12-07-2016, 12:59 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by spyglass View Post
                          Hi,
                          Forget number 2.
                          When has anyone's chalk writing looked anything like their normal pen and paper writing.?

                          Regards
                          mine and I'm pretty sure everyone elses too. at least very similar
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dantheman View Post
                            Hi Abbey,

                            Whats "OP"?

                            OP= opening statement?
                            opening post
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dantheman View Post
                              Hi Abbey,

                              Whats "OP"?

                              OP= opening statement?
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              opening post
                              Or the person who made it, depends on context.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                              Comment

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