Attempted decapitation

[Errata]

I think that whatever the killer did, whatever else his purpose or goal was, he clearly couldn't do it without obliterating the neck. I don't think the goal was the throat slashing, because otherwise the rest of it is an insane risk for someone who already has what they want. But the throat cuts are not simply a method of causing death. Waaay too much overkill. But decapitation doesn't make much sense either, especially since he was likely seen at some point during his escapes from the crime scenes, and a head is not small. Not to mention he almost had it at least twice, but didn't pursue.

So why can't he open them up without hacking away at the neck first? Necks are not inherently symbolic, but it houses the voice box which might be significant.

[Mr Lucky]

Hi Mr Lucky

I can understand your point of view, organ removal is a running theme regarding Chapman, Eddowes, Kelly, if indeed her heart was taken. But what if Tabram (as I believe) was a Ripper victim? Few serial killers (the mutilating variety) evolve "ready made" so to speak regarding the signature that eventually identifies them. Most build up to that point. As you say it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the killer of Polly Nichols was interupted, thus no taking of body parts occured. It could also be that the revealing of internal organs whilst mutilating Nichols aroused something in the murderer after the fact, and he resolved that the next woman he killed he would bring something home with him to remember the deed.

Regards

Observer

Hi Observer

I do think the killer of Nichols was interrupted, but that killer never intended to take her uterus or any organs from her.

The abdominal wounds are caused by a violent stabbing and ripping action, and it's apparently so dark that Cross and Paul can't even see the wounds or the blood about her, so how would the killer remove her uterus using those methods in those conditions?

[lynn cates]

ability

Hello Lucky. Thanks.

"the point is that he had been unable to finish it."

Don't mean to quibble but not sure how we know this. Was he able? Well, he did NOT finish. What can we infer?

Cheers.
LC

[Mr Lucky]

Hi Lynn,

Not sure what you mean, going back to the original question;-

'If the killer of Chapman had managed to remove her head, would you consider this as being further evidence (along with the missing uterus) that the killer of Nichols was interrupted ?'

if you don't think Nichols killer was interrupted, then no you would not cite it as 'further evidence' that her killer was interrupted.

[lynn cates]

interrupted?

Hello Lucky. Thanks.

If Chapman had been decapitated, I still do not see that as sufficient to show he was interrupted in Polly's case.

Cheers.
LC

[miss c]

Hi everyone,
i know i am joining this discussion Kate but just wanted to give my point of view,
I don't think the aim was decapitation as neck wounds on the victims in general were severe and from what i understand such ferocity would result in the neck being almost severed from the body, so in my opinion the appearance that could be seen as an attempt at decapitation was most likely just the result of the attack to the neck

miss c

[miss c]

Hi everyone,
i know i am joining this discussion Kate but just wanted to give my point of view,
I don't think the aim was decapitation as neck wounds on the victims in general were severe and from what i understand such ferocity would result in the neck being almost severed from the body, so in my opinion the appearance that could be seen as an attempt at decapitation was most likely just the result of the attack to the neck

miss c

[Mr Lucky]

Hi Lynn

Thanks for the answer.

Hi Miss C

Thanks for joining in, I was wondering;-

Do you think the killer of Nichols was interrupted or not?

[miss c]

Mr lucky

i think there is a strong possibility that Nichols killer was interrupted as otherwise this kill differs to much from the other victims and his M O, and giving the location i find it highly likely that he was interrupted or maybe thought he was about to be,

miss c

[miss c]

Mr lucky

i think there is a strong possibility that Nichols killer was interrupted as otherwise this kill differs to much from the other victims and his M O, and giving the location i find it highly likely that he was interrupted or maybe thought he was about to be,

miss c

[Mr Lucky]

i think there is a strong possibility that Nichols killer was interrupted as otherwise this kill differs to much from the other victims

Hi Miss C

Thanks, What way does it differ ?, It seems you're comparing to the other C5 victims, but what about Tabram or the other Whitechapel murders ?

[lynn cates]

Bagster

Hello MC.

"in my opinion the appearance that could be seen as an attempt at decapitation was most likely just the result of the attack to the neck"

According to Dr. Phillips, he induced that conclusion from looking at the attempt at pulling the head off, as evidenced by the muscular separation.

Cheers.
LC

[Mr Lucky]

attempt at pulling the head off

Hi Lynn

That's actually an attempt to separate the bones of the neck , not quite the same thing.

[lynn cates]

muscles

Hello Lucky. Thanks.

Actually, that was inferred from the muscular structures (I presume being pulled).

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I think there was a likelihood of the Ripper being caught regardless of Location, and I very much doubt he stayed anywhere more then a short time, and that includes Millers court , which I feel many of us overestimate the duration.
The injuries were inflicted with brutal force, and hastily in my opinion.
Regards Richard.