Annie's rings

[curious4]

annie

Hello Dave,

No, I'll give you Mylett, forgot about her, but Emma Smith was attacked by two or three men, I think perhaps two, she was hardly in a state to be coherent, so not quite a gang.

Anyway, my hypothesis and I'll stand by it while you all batter it to death lol!

Cheers,
C4

Seem to have posted this twice and can't get rid of it nohow, sorry!

[Rubyretro]

My query was more directed towards whether Jack took the- rings from Chapman (as was supposed at the time) or if they could have been stolen at the mortuary. This, I think, has some bearing on how he regarded these women, as human beings or as just cattle and as such, his "souvenirs" were the body parts of his victims, not their possessions.

Personally speaking, I think that Jack always took the opportunity of robbing these women -probably after killing and before mutilating. I feel sure that they would have wanted money up front before going anywhere with client(otherwise it would be too easy for the blokes...). So, I think that Jack at least took back his own money, and anything else with it. The rings were cheap, but maybe worth pawning for something...or maybe he didn't realise that they would be missed from the body, and reported as such, and he thought to give them as 'presents' to other women that he was sweet talking down the pub ?

[curious]

Polly Nichols was married for about 16 years, and so probably wore a wedding ring throughout that time and perhaps for a while afterwards. Might there be a residual impression from that, especially if she had gained weight as she grew older? I don't know the answer - just wondering.

Regards, Bridewell.

From my own experience, yes, the impression of a wedding band remains on a finger for a long time afterward -- and it is more than a tan line, it is an impression.
curious

[Rubyretro]

curious;221770]From my own experience, yes, the impression of a wedding band remains on a finger for a long time afterward -- and it is more than a tan line, it is an impression.
curious

Very true. ( Both true and awful. I am in the agonising drawn out stages of a
marriage breakdown at the moment, and it is terrible to see the physical impression of that wedding ring on my body. It's very symbolic).

How long does it take to go, Curious ?

[curious]

Very true. ( Both true and awful. I am in the agonising drawn out stages of a
marriage breakdown at the moment, and it is terrible to see the physical impression of that wedding ring on my body. It's very symbolic).

How long does it take to go, Curious ?

I really can't remember, that was in 1988, but it seems like perhaps years before the impression left completely-- or it could have been my overactive imagination that could still see it.

But undoubtedly longer than 3 to 5 weeks.

[curious]

Hello Dave,

No, I'll give you Mylett, forgot about her, but Emma Smith was attacked by two or three men, I think perhaps two, she was hardly in a state to be coherent, so not quite a gang.

Hi, C4,
Actually because I consider Bury a real possibility, I can not leave Mylett out of the equation entirely because Bury used a cord to strangle his wife.

So, if after Kelly, Bury had thought to change his MO, to perhaps throw off the police, but still the "Ripper's" name was brought up, that might account for Bury's move to Dundee.

However, Mylett did have a little money on her. So that was different.

Just saying, don't rule Mylett out completely.

curious

[towboydds]

C4,

Well worded, and as my hypotheses seem to go, it would follow the other murders that taking of personal possessions is not in the M.O. in any of the cases. Body parts are not considered a possession in the sense one did not buy them, or was gifted them, so they are not possession as much as a part of them. And the body parts were of various pieces and not the same each and every time. Where a trophy of possession in 'serial killers' is the same or as closely related as possible. (ie) ring= if no ring necklace.

Newbie thinking...DDS

[DrHopper]

Very true. ( Both true and awful. I am in the agonising drawn out stages of a
marriage breakdown at the moment, and it is terrible to see the physical impression of that wedding ring on my body. It's very symbolic).

How long does it take to go, Curious ?

You have my sincere sympathy. It does get easier and better (no matter which side is 'right', whatever that means anyway), but it is a nightmare. In a few years you will look back and be glad that it is all over, just keep telling yourself that.

As to the ring impression, from personal experience I could still see the mark after 1 1/2 years... but it was invisible to casual observers. Rubbing it with a moisturiser would probably help, and make sure you get a good tan on your whole hand ASAP! For me it was a constant physical reminder that my daughter now lives 3000 miles away with her mother...

[curious4]

Trophies

C4,

Well worded, and as my hypotheses seem to go, it would follow the other murders that taking of personal possessions is not in the M.O. in any of the cases. Body parts are not considered a possession in the sense one did not buy them, or was gifted them, so they are not possession as much as a part of them. And the body parts were of various pieces and not the same each and every time. Where a trophy of possession in 'serial killers' is the same or as closely related as possible. (ie) ring= if no ring necklace.

Newbie thinking...DDS

Thank you, towboy. I have also been giving thought to how he would have carrried the body parts away (although this really belongs to another thread) and have come to the conclusion that he either wrapped them in oiled silk or ( I think more likely) had a "game" pocket in his clothes, lined with oiled silk.

Cheers,
C4

[curious]

T I have also been giving thought to how he would have carrried the body parts away (although this really belongs to another thread) and have come to the conclusion that he either wrapped them in oiled silk or ( I think more likely) had a "game" pocket in his clothes, lined with oiled silk.

Cheers,
C4

Hi, C4

would that be expensive? a "game" pocket or oiled silk either?

Thx,
curious

[curious4]

Oiled silk

Hello Namesake,

Yes, it may well have been. Not a new thing though, been around since the 18th century, so maybe not extremely so. My view of Jack as "posh Jack" would allow him to be equipped with whatever he wanted however.

Best wishes,
C4

[curious]

Hello Namesake,

Yes, it may well have been. Not a new thing though, been around since the 18th century, so maybe not extremely so. My view of Jack as "posh Jack" would allow him to be equipped with whatever he wanted however.

Best wishes,
C4

Namesake indeed!

What fun.

Ah, Posh Jackie, interesting. How does that tie in with him taking Annie's rings. Or do you believe her killer took them? Or not?

curious

[curious4]

Annie's rings

Hello again Curious,

Well I would say that there is a good chance he didn't. Both Liz Stride and Catherine Eddowes had thimbles, quite a personal thing for a woman, and small, easy to carry, but they weren't taken.

Best wishes,
C4

[Rubyretro]

You have my sincere sympathy. It does get easier and better (no matter which side is 'right', whatever that means anyway), but it is a nightmare. In a few years you will look back and be glad that it is all over, just keep telling yourself that.

As to the ring impression, from personal experience I could still see the mark after 1 1/2 years... but it was invisible to casual observers. Rubbing it with a moisturiser would probably help, and make sure you get a good tan on your whole hand ASAP! For me it was a constant physical reminder that my daughter now lives 3000 miles away with her mother..

Thank you for that very sweet reply, Dr Hopper. It sounds as if it was far worse for you than it is for me -that is really terrible about your daughter..

My little family are all very good friends, and the painful bit was falling out over money...it is really terrible fighting over who needs what and the justifications for demanding such and such -all sorts of horrible things come out of the closet, and legal threats that menace to drag on etc. As soon as we agreed on 50/50 it's been alot easier all round.

I could never be bothered about tanning & moisturising my hands -I'll just wear a big chunky dress ring on that finger..and keep my unusual wedding ring, transformed, on a different finger as a 'good mate' ring (hopefully !).

Back to JTR...

[Brenda]

@RubyRetro

RubyRetro -
Been there, done that. Go get yourself a beautiful new haircut and even a new coloring. Get some new makeup, a new outfit and hit the town with some friends. Take some classes. Time for a new RubyRetro to rise like the phoenix from the ashes! I wish you the very best in this new life you will be building.