Arrangement at her feet

[Monty]

As a side isssue, and I'm not sure if this is pertinent or not, but the reason Victorian PCs had such high collars on there tunics was to prevent them from being garrotted.

Apparently it was the preferred method of taking out a Rozzer during the mid to late Victorian era.

Monty

[Abby Normal]

The issue of how JtR killed his victims so quickly and quietly has always made me wonder and since we are getting off topic I'll start a new one on the method topic.

[mariab]

Height is key for an armlock to the neck, otherwise it's not hard to do.

This is indeed very possible and would explain how Stride became unconscious, since the doctors looked hard and could find no evidence of strangulation or poisoning. No bruising to the neck.

Precisely.

As a side isssue, and I'm not sure if this is pertinent or not, but the reason Victorian PCs had such high collars on there tunics was to prevent them from being garrotted.Apparently it was the preferred method of taking out a Rozzer during the mid to late Victorian era.

Wow! Very interesting. Like in some bad 'hoods in the US today, where thugs carry laundry rope on themselves.

[Wickerman]

... If the knife is the main cause of death, the garotte would not have been used,....

Mike.
I find it difficult to understand why you feel so certain.

...and an arm around the neck or simply tugging back the head with a fistful of hair is much easier than a garotte.

Either method requires the use of both hands. A properly applied 'sleeper hold' to apply intense pressure to the arteries on either side of the neck requires you clasp your hands together.
If you modify your grip into what is called a 'choke hold', one hand is gripping your forearm while your other hand applies pressure to the back of the victims head - pushing the neck forward into the crook of your hooked forearm.
Either way both hands are occupied, so how can this be preferable to holding a garrote in both hands?
In either case you still have to release your victim, lower the body to the ground and take your knife out of your pocket.

I apologise if you thought i was ignoring your point, rather it appeared to me you were thinking that in your preferred method he could still hold a knife in one hand. However, both hands are still occupied.

[Wickerman]

....No bruising to the neck. Of course, since most suspects wouldn't have the knowledge, height, or capability of a an 'armlock', this would be a hard sell....

When the garotte is applied the impact on the jugular, the carotid artery & the trachea is instantaneous. The effect of an armlock is not so sudden.

Traditionally we see this 'sleeper hold' applied by bare arms around a bare neck, like in Wrestling for example.
In real life, the assailant is likely clothed so his arms are covered with coat sleeves lessening the effect of pressure, sleeves offer padding. Likewise the victim has a coat collar, or coat & jacket collar, afterall she is dressed to be out at night. All this extra clothing inhibits the required effect of pressure to the neck and obstructs the critical placement of the arm.

On top of this, the victim is still able to breathe, and scream. It is well noted, even in the case of Stride (who I do not regard as a Ripper victim), that "no noise was heard". This was true with Nichols, Chapman & Eddowes, in all cases not a sound was heard.

The sleeper hold does not restrict the victim from momentarily gasping, shouting, or screaming. In fact if the killer wraps his right arm around the victims neck, he would be required to use his left hand to clasp over her nose & mouth and apply pressure to stop her making a sound while she slips into unconsciousness.
No post-mortem evidence is noted for finger pressure around the mouth & nose of any victim.

If you recall Chapman had scratches on her neck "which ran contrary to the cut", in plain English the scratches ran vertical to the horizontal cut to the throat.
You can't easily scratch your neck if it is covered by a clothed arm, but if a ligature (garotte) is used then certainly we can expect to see scratch marks.

Perhaps your assassin even carried a garotte in his arsenal?

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

No post-mortem evidence is noted for finger pressure around the mouth & nose of any victim.

Actually, there was clear evidence of this in at least the case of Nichols.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Cuervo]

Hi, well, I know we are talking about a different time with different habits, but anyway, Jack the Ripper is the begining of the serial killer phenomenom. Therefore I keep thinking he took trophies from his victims, and there are signs of his signature appart from acts of MO in the crime scene. The possesions of Annie Chapman may have been a lost from her pockets, but we can´t forget we are talking about a serial killer and their behaviours aren´t of logic at first sigth. To me it´s part of the signature of the killer (lets think about the way killers like Albert de Salvo or The Sacramento Vampire, left the bodies, it was part of a message, the siognature).
Ana

[Wickerman]

Actually, there was clear evidence of this in at least the case of Nichols.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Show me...

You mean this?

[Tom_Wescott]

Yeah, thumb and finger marks found each side of mouth.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Hi, well, I know we are talking about a different time with different habits, but anyway, Jack the Ripper is the begining of the serial killer phenomenom.

It is likely more accurate to see the Whitechapel Murders as the first group of murders to hit the popular press. And, perhaps largely due to them being committed in close proximity, become viewed in part as a series or consisting of a series of murders. Therefore the phenomena of a Serial Killer was born more by the press & inexperienced figures in authority than any factual determination.

Regards, Jon S.

[Jon Guy]

Regarding the items that had apparently been arranged at Chapman`s feet it might also be relevant to mention that in Mitre Square Dr Brown noted that a piece of Eddowes intestine had been placed between her body and left arm, apparently by design.

Indeed, it may be also worth mentioning the bizarre scene in Millers Court where Dr Bond noted that Kelly`s uterus, kidneys and one breast were under her head, the other breast by the right foot, the liver between the feet, the intestines by the right side and the spleen by the left side of the body.

Regards
Jon

[Wickerman]

I still think it's the vocabulary of the period thats the problem.
Reading 'design' or 'arrangement' suggests to our generation 'intent', whereas the Doctors are really only saying 'placed' as opposed to 'dropped' or 'thrown'.

Regards, Jon S.