AC and TOD

[lynn cates]

Sir MM

Hello Mike. And hence Sir MM's dictum, no one ever saw the ripper.

The best.
LC

[perrymason]

Hello Mike. And hence Sir MM's dictum, no one ever saw the ripper.

The best.
LC

I had'nt thought how well the idea fit with the above Lynn,....and it is odd that he made that statement knowing that we had witnesses seeing Annie, Liz, Kate and Mary with someone near to the time of their deaths.

All the best Mate, thanks for pointing that out.

[perrymason]

Notice one consequence of all this is to eliminate the necessity of the ripper appearing normal and gaining women's confidence. And so those who were completely mentally dissociated need not, on that account, be eliminated as suspects.

The best.
LC

Hi Lynn,

You may be correct in your interpretation of whether obvious mental illness might fit a "pouncer", but thats really the opposite of what I was thinking. Men obvious with their mental health issues would have been watched by everyone they pass by, they would not hold down jobs, and they would not likely have a social life that one might consider normal. They would immediately have been the most watched people at night.

I think though that the evidence we have supports a profile of a man who doesnt draw attention. Someone who did work days....only night kills, weekends or holidays.....someone with people that see him in everyday life and think nothing of him in evil terms....because hes so "normal".

The men that we know were obviously deranged and did not hold down jobs and were institutionalized at some point for their illnesses would be so easy to find and watch....the ones that went about their business wouldnt be.

Cheers Lynn

[lynn cates]

removed impediment

Hello Mike. No, I'm just pointing out the removal of a former impediment. I still don't see a fully dissociated ripper. But we need not discount even that, given a stealth status.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

confession

Hello Mike. I just saw your previous post regarding Sir MM. Yes, it is quite curious that he could say that. Either:

1. He was talking out his, umm, hat.

or

2. He was sitting on information which no one else was privy too.

I have been chatting in the last month with a prominent ripperologist who is convinced that Sir MM received information from a certain vicar which contained, amongst other things, MJD's full confession. In this confession, a full list of victims was supplied. (Hence, Sir MM's certainty on "There were exactly 5 . . .")

Food for thought.

The best.
LC

[Observer]

Hi Lynn

Hello Mike. Excellent observation. How ironic if Jack never approached a single client!

I think a scenario could be devised for each of the C5, but with Kate's being the most difficult. I suppose one could claim Lawende did not see Kate, that she was already inside Mitre square at the time. On this scenario, perhaps Jack was hiding inside one of the empty houses.


The best.
LC

So who did Levy and Harris observe, with Catherine Eddowes, the Archbishop of Canterbury? In short Lawende's sighting was corroborated.

all the best

Observer

[lynn cates]

exegetical difficulties

Hello Observer.

"So who[m] did Levy and Harris observe, with Catherine Eddowes, the Archbishop of Canterbury?"

I'm not sure, but perhaps even his Holiness needed diversion.

"In short Lawende's sighting was corroborated."

It was indeed. The 2 chaps with him did as much. And we know they corroborated that it was Jack and Kate because . . . ?

(Lest there be a misunderstanding, I prefer to think it was Kate and her assailant. I merely indicate a few exegetical difficulties.)

The best.
LC

[Observer]

Because 10 minutes later Catherine Eddowes was found ripped to pieces in Mitre Square. Get a grip Lynn, Lawende, Harris and Levy saw Jack the Ripper.

Sorry about the grammar, Maggy Ann and I seem to need some lessons.

all the best

Observer

[Chris]

I think that - considering how many potential witnesses there were - the question has to be quite what Macnaghten meant by that comment. And if he really meant that none of the possible witnesses had seen the killer, how on earth could he have known such a thing?

[perrymason]

I think that - considering how many potential witnesses there were - the question has to be quite what Macnaghten meant by that comment. And if he really meant that none of the possible witnesses had seen the killer, how on earth could he have known such a thing?

That is the point Chris, it would seem that to even begin to make a statement like that some prior information would be practical, and as we agree, we do have witness sightings of men with the victims in 4 of the Ripper cases, near to the times of their deaths. I believe that its possible that he was inferring that the killer was not seen by any resident witness.....but his comments suggest he was seen by a City PC. People assume he confused Smith at Berner with Lawende at Mitre, or something like that...but its possible he wasnt all that confused. Maybe no witness did see Jack with a soon to be victim other than a cop....at some venue. That might allow for the speculation that the killer surprised the women after they left the company of their clients.

As you were mentioning Observer, the fact that we have witnesses that saw Kate with someone less than 10 minutes before she is found in the condition she is in, does lend itself to a suggestion that the Three Wise Men saw Kate with her killer. But if the killer didnt work alone, or led Kate to someone else inside the Square waiting, it still would be workable timewise. The real killer took extra time to cut and rip the apron section free, to make the facial cuts, and to place a section of her colon between her arm and body....so the available minutes would be enough to allow for a "handoff", if you will. Or for the Sailor Man to leave and for Kate to enter the square alone.

Best regards all.

[lynn cates]

respondeo quod

Hello Observer.

"Because 10 minutes later Catherine Eddowes was found ripped to pieces in Mitre Square."

What does post hoc ergo propter hoc mean?

"Get a grip Lynn"

Wasn't that Aaron Kosminski's line?

"Lawende, Harris and Levy saw Jack the Ripper."

I would think that quite probable, at least, that's my belief. But that's ALL that it is.

The best.
LC

[Observer]

Hi Mike

As you were mentioning Observer, the fact that we have witnesses that saw Kate with someone less than 10 minutes before she is found in the condition she is in, does lend itself to a suggestion that the Three Wise Men saw Kate with her killer. But if the killer didnt work alone, or led Kate to someone else inside the Square waiting, it still would be workable timewise. The real killer took extra time to cut and rip the apron section free, to make the facial cuts, and to place a section of her colon between her arm and body....so the available minutes would be enough to allow for a "handoff", if you will. Or for the Sailor Man to leave and for Kate to enter the square alone.

Best regards all.

It is indeed workable, but we have to ask ourselves is the above scenario probable, and I think the answer to that is no. The fact is Catherine Eddowes and her companion were still engaged in conversation as Lawende and freinds left the scene, the minutes were ticking down Mike. And why would she enter the Square alone? I can't grasp what you're implying here.

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

Hello Observer.

"Because 10 minutes later Catherine Eddowes was found ripped to pieces in Mitre Square."

What does post hoc ergo propter hoc mean?

Ehhh??? " post hoc ergo propter hoc" where did that come from?

You are a one, quite the riddler.

"Get a grip Lynn"

Wasn't that Aaron Kosminski's line?

Did Aaron Kosminski know someone called Lynn? I never knew that.

"Lawende, Harris and Levy saw Jack the Ripper."

I would think that quite probable, at least, that's my belief. But that's ALL that it is.

It's a racing certainty

all the best

Observer

[lynn cates]

certainty

Hello Observer.

"post hoc ergo propter hoc" is a logical fallacy. Google it and see what you find.

If Aaron lived in the UK, I daresay he knew many Lynns. It is a very old Scottish name.

A certainty? Can you explain how ANYTHING apprehended through the 5 sensory modalities can count as certain? People in my line of work have sought an answer to that question for 2500 years. The answer still eludes us.

The best.
LC

[Observer]

Hi Lynn

A certainty, believe me.

I reiterate, regarding your comment

"I suppose one could claim Lawende did not see Kate, that she was already inside Mitre square at the time. On this scenario, perhaps Jack was hiding inside one of the empty houses."

This baffles me, it does not make any sense, non whatsoever. We have JTR hiding inside an empty house in Mitre Square, suddenly leaping out upon a passing Catherine Eddowes. Really.

all the best

Observer