I don't know why...

[emlodik]

But for some reason, I find Annie Chapman's murder the creepiest and most perverse... I can't really explain why, but does anyone else feel the same way?

[Magpie]

Howdy!

I can think of a few reasons:

It took place outside a house crammed with people.
It took place in early daylight.
There's a possibility that a witness overhead part of the attack
Stories of "arranged objects" and ritualistic placement of the body give it an air of the macabre (even if it turned out such accounts were actually bogus).
She's the only victim where we have a pre-mortem photograph.


I'm sure there are other factors that people can add to the list.

[emlodik]

Howdy!

I can think of a few reasons:

It took place outside a house crammed with people.
It took place in early daylight.
There's a possibility that a witness overhead part of the attack
Stories of "arranged objects" and ritualistic placement of the body give it an air of the macabre (even if it turned out such accounts were actually bogus).
She's the only victim where we have a pre-mortem photograph.


I'm sure there are other factors that people can add to the list.

I think you might be thinking of Catherine Eddows, since there's no known pre-mortem photograph of Annie Chapman.

I just find it creepy that aside from her intestines being ripped out of her and thrown over her shoulders, Annie's body (well, her face) was left untouched... An all the other victim were at least REMOTELY attractive, but Annie Chapman looks like today's 70 year old woman!

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Emlodik,

I could be wrong, but with 'pre-mortem' photograph, I think Magpie might mean that there exists a photograph taken when she was still alive, several years before the murder.

On the other hand, there exists - as you probably refer to - a photograph of Eddowes before she was put on the authopsy table with the wounds still visible.

All the best

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

I think you might be thinking of Catherine Eddows, since there's no known pre-mortem photograph of Annie Chapman.

I just find it creepy that aside from her intestines being ripped out of her and thrown over her shoulders, Annie's body (well, her face) was left untouched... An all the other victim were at least REMOTELY attractive, but Annie Chapman looks like today's 70 year old woman!

Well, personally I feel that the EDdowes murder is just as creepy, if not more, because
a) Mitre Sqaure is a creepy place
b) Eddowes was even more viciously attacked than Chapman; I am not only referring to the facial cuts but also to the excessive hackings inside the body in addition to the mutilations (which were just as severe as in Chapman's case).

But hey - none of the crimes are exactly pretty.

All the best

[Fisherman]

Maybe the Chapman slaying makes us a little bit uneasy for the simple reason that it is the first strike were we can say "so that was where he was heading!"
Also, the setting, with the well-known pictures of that deteriorating door and the crumbling stairs down to the yard may, perhaps taken together with that eerie James Masom film piece, send an extra shiver or two down the spine.

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Definitely. That picture of the empty yard, the door, the steps where Richardson sat, is perhaps more fearsome than Kelly's photograph.
That suggests all the horrible deeds we know.

Amitiés,
David

[emlodik]

Maybe the Chapman slaying makes us a little bit uneasy for the simple reason that it is the first strike were we can say "so that was where he was heading!"
Also, the setting, with the well-known pictures of that deteriorating door and the crumbling stairs down to the yard may, perhaps taken together with that eerie James Masom film piece, send an extra shiver or two down the spine.

The best,
Fisherman

Ah, yes! That film... Yeah, all the stories and events surrounding the Annie Chapman murder seem so unnerving... I find it even more haunting than the Mary Kelly case.

PS - "Pre-mortem!" Now I get it, thanks! Fisherman!

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

That's true, Fisherman.
Especially the interior of Hanbury Street 29 certainly contains a large amount of atmosphere.

I assume it's a matter of personal preferences which one you consider as most haunting in that regards. Mitre Square has just always held a certain position as far as I am concerned. Strange place.

And of course it's a very good point about Chapman being the first victim where the killer's ultimate expression is displayed.
I find the Eddowes murder even more scary, though.

All the best

[Fisherman]

Though all the deeds have elements that easily creep in under your skin, I would say that the picture of Mary Kelly lying on her bed is the ultimate horror.
I know that you often state, Glenn, that there are pictures of cases around that are even more horrifying, and I have no trouble accepting that there of course must be.
Still, coupling the Kelly picture with the knowledge that the slaying was ascribed to the Ripper and with the atmosphere present in such an old photo of such evil, there is no way I am ever going to say that any other murder could be compared to that of Kelly in terms of scaring the living daylights out of you. It is the ultimate nightmare as far as I´m concerned, and it has been so ever since I first saw that wretched picture in Rumbelows book some decades ago.

The best,

Fisherman

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

It did that for me was well, Fisherman.
Unfortunately I have seen too much of the same stuff since then.
I know it seems cold, but I can't say it holds the same daunting feel as the Mitre Square murder. I am at odds why, but it might have something to do with the place as such - although the Mary Kelly murder is extreme in itself, I find the crime scene in Mitre Square to be extremely atmospheric and to appeal more to my imagination.

What sets my imagination in motion for me is not the level of mutilation, but the actual context and nature of the crime scene. Although the buildings in Mitre Square is totally changed today, that has always been the one who makes my skin crawl.
Another factor is that the life and destiny of Eddowes gets to me on a personal level and the fact that I like her as a person - I am more sensitive to those psychological factors today than any gory elements in a crime scene photo. Gory stuff in itself rarely get to me anyomore (and I am not saying that's a good thing)and as you yourself put it, I have seen loads of those.

However, seeing it in real life instead of a photo would of course be fundamentaly different.

All the best

[Graham]

For me personally, the Chapman murder really is creepy, because I actually had my hand on the knob of the side door of 29 Hanbury Street years ago (obviously before it was demolished) but I bottled out before I could bring myself to try and open it. Even then, there was a horrible creepiness about the place, which was semi-derelict but, as I thought at the time, still occupied. That was the day I visited all of the remaining Ripper sites, so far as I could, but 29 Hanbury Street really put it up me. Seeing the James Mason film some time later made it even worse. Brrrrr!

The Kelly photos are, obviously, horrific and disturbing, but to my mind at least, they are not creepy.

I agree with Emlodik.

Cheers,

Graham

[DVV]

There is one moving detail, at the corner of Church passage: the fact that Eddowes had one hand resting upon Jack's chest...
Amitiés,
David

[Graham]

There is one moving detail, at the corner of Church passage: the fact that Eddowes had one hand resting upon Jack's chest...
Amitiés,
David

....as she attempted to pick his pocket.

Graham

[DVV]

Can you produce a written evidence...?

Amitiés,
David