Originally posted by Fisherman
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Two knives, two people?
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Originally posted by TheCuriousCat View Post
I am comforted to know it is an act of imagination, as opposed to memory.
I get what you mean when you say that people tend to apply their own sensibility to acts like this. People wind up making bizarre statements like...I dunno... "I can't imagine a homicidal maniac would carry two knives!" Or, "Why would the murderer drop th apron by the graffiti if he didn't write it!" As if butchering prostitutes and laying their entrails on the street is perfectly understandable and logical thing to do otherwise.
Back to that original point, to try and understand a murderer is, for me, a challenge from the point of his or her perspective. That's why I try to look through others eyes and circumstances. Its really nothing very different from acting, which I have done some of. The only way any actor can play a murderer truthfully requires adopting, in some cases 24 hours a day, a different perspective on the world around them. I can imagine that Pollys killer felt a combination of fear and excited anticipation just before he attacked, he was doing someone he was looking forward to, but he was also aware he was in a street... I can see Liz Strides killer angrily choking her by her scarf, pulling her back and running his knife across her throat because she was just pushing him verbally,.. I can see Annie dragging herself into the yard with a customer only to discover that she dragged the wrong guy, and her killer was calm and grateful for the modicum of privacy that yard provided, ..I can see Kate trying to blackmail someone who was a violent criminal, involved in criminal activities that he couldn't risk compromised by a canary,..and I can see Mary trusting someone who likely from the outset, meant her harm. Likely the "other" Joe.
Why the women were killed is always the key question, it can tell you Who much of the time.
Sorry if I pontificated there...Its important to me that to discuss these crimes without morality judgements. Like.. how many people could even be capable of doing what was done to Mary Kelly in a given area and time? I believe that because an act is gruesome and rare, that doesn't make it so heinous that others might hesitate doing their own versions, acting out their own problems. Who among us here could be capable of killing someone? My guess would be just about everybody with the right provocation. Say, someone trying to kill family member in front of you. Without belaboring it further, we all have dark and light, and some of the answers here are not well lit.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostTabram died from an insane amount of stabs to the upper body, with no cut to speak of.
Of course, Nichols is an other proposition entirely, but maybe that was on account of how a smallish penknife blade would not lend itself to the kind of cutting sustained by Nichols?
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Originally posted by Losmandris View Post
Horrible to think of, but this murder and possibly earlier instances could be JtR getting use to the actual act of killing somebody, to see how they react, what it feels like etc. Once he becomes comfortable and has a 'feel' for it, he changes his MO to better cater to his more vicious/sick desires?Last edited by Sam Flynn; 08-14-2019, 08:55 AM.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
His stabbing instincts certainly were. But a few weeks later, with Nichols, they seem to have deserted him.
Tristan
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Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
Thanks, Fish.
The Tabram murder is the one I’m most curious about at the moment. It seems to me to work better as an inspiration for the JTR series than as a stepping stone.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
I do, yes - I have him down as the killer of the 1873 torso victim a full fifteen years prior, and that was an extremely explicit deed in terms of cutting. Of course, that begs the question why Tabram was such a comparatively messy deed, and I cannot supply the final answer to such a question. I cannot even say with absolute certainty that Tabram was killed by the same man, but I think she was. As I have speculated before, maybe he never intended to take his deeds to the streets, maybe Tabram was slain without any premeditation, as the result of a sudden - perhaps alcohol-fuelled - rage. Apparently, the killer did not bring the kind of weapon that would have enabled him to make the kind of cuts the other victims normally suffered, and so I tend to rule out premeditation whereas that premeditation seems to have been there with Nichols and onwards. A possible explanation could be that he wanted the kind of interest and press coverage that came with the street killings, as was the case with Tabram.
Alternatively, of course, if Tabram was not a victim of his, he may have been attracted by the coverage the deed got nevertheless and decided to take his cutting business to the streets.
The Tabram murder is the one I’m most curious about at the moment. It seems to me to work better as an inspiration for the JTR series than as a stepping stone.
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Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
Fish,
Do you think his cutting interests were fully-formed when Tabram was killed?
Gary
Alternatively, of course, if Tabram was not a victim of his, he may have been attracted by the coverage the deed got nevertheless and decided to take his cutting business to the streets.Last edited by Fisherman; 08-13-2019, 09:09 PM.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
We actually don't know that the killer would open the abdomen and remove organs if he had the opportunity to. I think that alluring option is a dangerous one to embrace. The extensive cutting to the body of Mary Kelly speaks of a wider field of cutting interests.
Do you think his cutting interests were fully-formed when Tabram was killed?
GaryLast edited by MrBarnett; 08-13-2019, 09:03 PM.
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
But Tabram didn't have her abdomen opened or organs removed.
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