Tumblety's Mustache

[ditlew]

Hi All and Merry Christmas!

It has been a while since this thread was active but since I've just recently have become a member, though I've been following the site for years, I felt like sharing my point of view on this matter.

I'm not really sure if I think Tumblety or any of the other currently known suspect was Jack or not but I don't think that the mustache should rule him out based on the following observations:

1. Based on the interviewers description of the mustache it wasn't all that different than that of Chapman's in length.
2. A mustache can be styled and we know that Tumblety did practice that using wax.
3. If Tumblety's mustache was a part of his personal 'branding' and something people would have identified him by, I'm sure that he would have known this and styled it differently, even folded it, using wax if he was about to go ripping someone.

[DVV]

Hi Ditlew,

what certainly rules Tumblety out is the fact that he has been ruled out by the police in 1888.
Of course, he could cut his moustache...
But to match witnesses' suspects, he had also to walk on his knees.

Amitiés, best wishes too,
David

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

Sure but since the thread was started as a question to wether or not the mustache cleared him, that was my focus point for my post. I clearly feel that it is wrong to clear him based on the mustache.

Regarding if any witness really ever saw Jack or not, I don't know. Nor do I know if Tumblety really was ever cleared or not.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[lynn cates]

retro

Hello DVV.

"But to match witnesses' suspects, he had also to walk on his knees."

Quite true. To say nothing about rolling back the calendar several years. (Hmm, what a great idea!)

The best.
LC

[DVV]

He could have been in custody on Nov 9, and was soon released. That tells me he has been cleared - as the WM, and not because of his moustache, I agree! The Irish/Fenian aspect is another matter.

Amitiés
David

[ditlew]

To say nothing about rolling back the calendar several years. (Hmm, what a great idea!)

Quite interresting. I've seen this argument before, but I still fail to see what aspect of the murders that was impossible for a 55 years old man to do?

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[lynn cates]

rocking chairs and Jack

Hello Ditlew.

"I still fail to see what aspect of the murders that was impossible for a 55 years old man to do?"

None, whatsoever. But the idea was to provide a match with the eyewitness (well, purported eyewitness) accounts. Most alleged a chap younger than Tumblety.

I'm with you. Don't sell us seniors short.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

excellent!
I'll soon be with you, I'm afraid.

Now I understand why you see so many Jacks.
It's a package tour...

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

Hi DVV,

Sure, he was arrested and then released due to lack of evidence. But I don't think that means that he was cleared of being Jack. Of course we can only be guessing by now

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

To put it this way;

Such a diddly-doo as Mr. Tumblety was too strikingly-looking to wander unnoticed in Whitechapel, wasn't he?!

All the best
Jukka

[c.d.]

Just to repeat the important points here:

The interview with Tumblety appears to have taken place shortly after he arrived back in New York. It was not uncommon for men of that period to have a mustache but the journalist goes to great lengths (pun intended) to note how striking it is. Therefore, it has to be a significant characteristic and he would not have been able to grow it to such a length had he shaved it off during the time of the Ripper murders. Throw in his height and his age and it is quite clear that none of the witnesses (who may or may not have seen Jack) are describing Tumblety.

c.d.

[ditlew]

Hi c.d. (and Jukka),

Again this is supposed to be a thread about the mustache alone being the reason that Tumblety couldn't be Jack.

The journalists description of Tumblety's mustache was part of a overall description of Tumblety. I don't see why you (c.d.) and DVV wanted Tumblety to have shaved. He simply could have styled the mustache differently using or not using the wax we know that he was used to apply. The length of his mustache wasn't longer than that of Chapman based on the description given by the journalists. People tend to agree that the Chapman mustache was common, so I'd say that if Tumblety didn't wax his handlebar mustache it alone probably wouldn't make him stand out.

I don't say that Tumblety wasn't Jack of other reasons but the mustache alone doesn't rule him out.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[c.d.]

Hi Ditlew,

We don't know what type of mustache Chapman had in 1888 or even whether or not he had a mustache at that time. I'm also not sure that his style of mustache was "common."

The witnesses describe the man they saw as having a "small" mustache. I don't think that Tumblety could have styled it in such a fashion as to have it appear small no matter what he did.

I don't know why you are insisting that the mustache be the only point for ruling out Tumblety as a suspect. It's not like it was simply a mustache walking down the street. Height, age and mustache. A witness would have to have missed all three to be describing Tumblety.

c.d.

[ditlew]

I know this has been discussed on the old boards but I think it is deserving of another round. Considering the size of Tumblety's mustache, is it at all possible that witnesses would not have commented on it? I don't think that they would have simply said that the person they saw had a mustache. I would think that it would have been visible even from looking at him from the back because it stuck out so long.

Wasn't there a pamphlet or book with his picture on the cover and a date just prior to 1888 indicating that he was still sporting it prior to that time?

I just can't see Tumblety wearing a fake mustache. His ego could not have withstood it falling off at an inopportune moment.

So, if any of the witnesses actually saw the Ripper, does their failure to describe Tumblety's mustache go a long way to clearing him as a viable suspect?

c.d.

The above is why I focus on the mustache plus you didn't start a thread named: 'Tumblety, would he have been recognized?' but specifically 'Tumblety's mustache'

As far I remember most witnesses said that the men they saw had large mustaches. Only Isaac said that the one he saw had a small mustache and wether or not he or any of the other men seen was Jack is open for discussion.

Best Regards,
Ditlew