Tumblety in the Evening Post

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

Get a grip.

Robert Anderson did not ask Campbell for handwriting samples. He asked Chief Crowley.

San Francisco Chronicle, 23rd November 1888—

"London (England) Thursday November 22 - P. Crowley, Chief of Police San Francisco Ca.: Thanks. Send handwriting and all details you can of Tumblety. ANDERSON, Scotland Yard."

Regards,

Simon

But, you claim Crowley initiated contact with Anderson and he was only being nice, thus, not pertinent to Anderson's clear initiation of request to Campbell. He didn't ask for handwriting samples from Campbell.

You're also claiming Tumblety was a nobody to Scotland Yard involved in a mere misdemeanor, so why would the man in charge of finding the Ripper - at the peak of the murders - wasted his time bothering Campbell on a nobody about a no-nothing case? Or, just as the papers stated, he was after information pertinent to the Ripper case.

...especially when their gross indecency case was so solid that Tumblety knew to fly the coop, which is one thing both of us are in agreement on.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Get a grip.

Robert Anderson did not ask Campbell for handwriting samples. He asked Chief Crowley.

San Francisco Chronicle, 23rd November 1888—

"London (England) Thursday November 22 - P. Crowley, Chief of Police San Francisco Ca.: Thanks. Send handwriting and all details you can of Tumblety. ANDERSON, Scotland Yard."

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

The Standard-Union, which was reported near the same time as the Brooklyn Citizen reported the same story,

…the London Police are evidently doing their level best to fasten the Whitechapel murders upon Dr. F. T. Tumblety.
Today Police Superintendent Campbell received a telegram from Assistant Police Commissioner Anderson, acting Chief since the resignation of Police Commissioner Warren, in reference to Tumblety. Mr. Anderson wants some information as to his life in Brooklyn, and says he is accused of indecent assault in London, where some say he was known as “Brooklyn’s Beauty.” Chief Campbell has investigated, and will send a complete report by mail. He says he was born in Sherbrooke, Canada, of Irish parents, but professes to be a Southerner. He was last seen here about eighteen months ago. The Chief is also looking for a pamphlet that Tumblety prepared, and which purported to be a history of himself.”

Now, where did he ask Campbell for handwriting samples? Oh, and apparently they were trying to 'fasten the whitechapel murders upon' Tumblety, not the gross indecency.

[mklhawley]

Earth to Planet Hawley,

You're asking one of those impossible-to-answer questions that people invariably put when they don't like the way a discussion is shaping up.

Allow me to ask you a more grounded question—

On 22nd November 1888, with Tumblety well on his way to Le Havre, how could a specimen of the good doctor's handwriting have assisted Robert Anderson in pressing a case against him as Jack the Ripper?

And if you mention Dear Boss, Saucy Jacky or the GSG the Death Star will pay an unannounced visit to your distant galaxy.

Regards,

Simon

Police Superintendent Campbell received a cable dispatch yesterday from Mr. Anderson, the deputy chief of the London Police, asking him to make some inquiries about Francis Tumblety

Now, where does it say he's asking for the doctor's handwriting in the request to Campbell?

[Simon Wood]

Earth to Planet Hawley,

You're asking one of those impossible-to-answer questions that people invariably put when they don't like the way a discussion is shaping up.

Allow me to ask you a more grounded question—

On 22nd November 1888, with Tumblety well on his way to Le Havre, how could a specimen of the good doctor's handwriting have assisted Robert Anderson in pressing a case against him as Jack the Ripper?

And if you mention Dear Boss, Saucy Jacky or the GSG the Death Star will pay an unannounced visit to your distant galaxy.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

"Are you serious that Anderson requested info on Tumblety with respect to the gross indecency charge?"

Yep. That's what Anderson's cable said.

Sorry to confound you with a documented fact.

Regards,

Simon

Hmmm, I seem to recall the four counts of gross indecency and indecent assault charges against Tumblety were specific to young Doughty and company in England. How could information from Brooklyn help with a case involving John Doughty on the West End? How could information from Brooklyn help with a case involving Arthur Brice on the West End? Involving Albert Fisher? Involving James Crowley?

Did he do something in Brooklyn that could prove he performed illegal activities in England?

Or, just as the reports OUT OF LONDON stated, they wanted to HOLD him on this charge, in order to investigate him as a Ripper suspect. That fits perfectly with Assistant Commissioner Anderson's cable.

[Batman]

The idea of Tumblety as a modern and not contemporary suspect is heavily falsified by the overwheliming evidence to the contrary. If journalists are to be filtered out then the recourse for researchers is.... Evans and his Ultimate source book.

Kudos to Evans, period.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

"Are you serious that Anderson requested info on Tumblety with respect to the gross indecency charge?"

Yep. That's what Anderson's cable said.

Sorry to confound you with a documented fact.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Brooklyn Citizen, November 23, 1888
“Is He The Ripper?” A Brooklynite Charged With the Whitechapel Murders Superintendent Campbell Asked by the London Police to Hunt Up the Record of Francis Tumblety — Captain Eason Supplies the Information and It Is Interesting
Police Superintendent Campbell received a cable dispatch yesterday from Mr. Anderson, the deputy chief of the London Police, asking him to make some inquiries about Francis Tumblety, who is under arrest in England on the charge of indecent assault. Tumblety is referred to in the dispatch in the following manner: “He says he is known to you, Chief, as Brooklyn’s Beauty.”

But of course, Superintendent Campbell solicited information with respect to the gross indecency charge. NOT. Read the above article. Besides, they already had a solid case on Tumblety with respect to the gross indecency charge. Sorry Simon.



New York World (U.S.A.)
19 November 1888

HE IS "ECCENTRIC" DR. TWOMBLETY
The Amercian Suspected of the Whitechapel Crimes Well Known Here.

A special London despatch to THE WORLD yesterday morning announced the arrest of a man in connection with the Whitechapel crimes, who gave his name as Dr. Kumblety, of New York. He could not be held on suspicion, but the police succeeded in getting him held under the special law passed soon after the "Modern Babylon" exposures.


Sorry Simon, when the London correspondent from the New York World sent the newswire dispatch, he had no idea the guy was Tumblety or even Twomblety. That happened just after. The above November 19 article is one day later.

Anderson had no control on Tumblety once he paid bail. Why are you talking out of both sides; first you say Scotland Yard HAD to follow the law (yours and Trevor's interpretation) to the letter, thus, Tumblety was in jail, BUT when it came to keeping someone from sneaking out, they could violate the law and 'hold' him.

Really, are you serious that Anderson requested info on Tumblety with respect to the gross indecency charge? Really Simon.

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Of course it's irrelevant on Planet Hawley.

But did Scotland Yard consider Tumblety, being held on remand at the time of Millers Court, the hottest Ripper suspect in November and December 1888?

Anderson asked Chief Campbell about Tumblety in respect of "the charge of indecent assault."

Anderson took three days to respond to Chief Crowley's offer of handwriting samples whilst doing nothing to prevent Tumblety slipping out of the country. It would be another two days before La Bretagne sailed from Le Havre.

Nobody seemed able to get his name right. "Another arrest was a man who gave the name of Dr. Kumblety of New York . . . The police say this is the man's right name, as proved by letters in his possession." "Dr. Kumblety is well known in this city. His name however is Twomblety, not Kumblety."

Everything Guy Logan later wrote could be found in newspapers.

Hard to comment on your "(didn't even know the this American even was yet)."

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi All,

David's excellent find of the Evening Post article appears to suggest that in his 1913 letter Littlechild was not revealing anything about Tumblety which George R. Sims, the avid Ripperphile, had not already been aware of in 1888 and subsequently dismissed in favour of Macnaghten's drowned doctor.

Regards,

Simon

And of course that's irrelevant to Scotland Yard considering Tumblety the hottest supect in November/December 1888, as evidenced by Littllechild's response, Assistant Commissioner Anderson's request for information on Ripper suspect Tumblety POST Kelly murder, the discovery made by the London correspondent about a 'Kumblety' (didn't even know the this American even was yet), and even Logan's later comments.

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

David's excellent find of the Evening Post article appears to suggest that in his 1913 letter Littlechild was not revealing anything about Tumblety which George R. Sims, the avid Ripperphile, had not already been aware of in 1888 and subsequently dismissed in favour of Macnaghten's drowned doctor.

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

Surrey, eh?

Are they giving you the iced water treatment at Banstead?

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Getting back to David's find for a brief moment, if anyone is still interested.

The New York World's Dunham article, that was reprinted in the 13th December, 1888 issue of the Evening Post, also appeared in the 26th of December, 1888, issue of the Dundee Courier & Argus and probably in other British papers as well. This tends to prove that Tumblety's name, in connection with the Whitechapel Murders, appeared more than we had originally suspected in the British Press. This suggests that the original theory, that Tumblety was unknown in Britain in connection with the Whitechapel Murders because he was an important suspect who had embarrassingly slipped through Scotland Yard's fingers and they had hushed the whole thing up, is wrong. As is the theory that Tumblety's name didn't appear because of U.K. libel laws.

Sorry to interrupt.

Wolf.

Hi Wolf,

Point well taken.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Jeff Leahy]

PS ..I'm happy to be officially ban from casebook for calling Trevor Marioot a … you fill in the long standing potential words…

But My partner and I are currently going through …lets say private records..that will change what Marriot believes forever…

Goodnight casebook…sweat dreams