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'ol man Tumblety

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  • 'ol man Tumblety

    I've always been a volatile critic of those who promote Tumblety as a suspect, and this has been largely and simply because of his age in 1888, approaching his 60th, and I just could not imagine a man of that age having the will, speed or agility to commit the Whitechapel Murders.
    But then blow me down I find this old fart at 65 running round the East End, trying to entice women into dark alleyways, and then stabbing them when they refuse... two in one night if you please!
    And the old buggar tries to stab the copper who arrests him as well.
    There is something very familiar about this tale as well, isn't there?
    Anyways, with some 'umble pie:

    JOHN ROWLEY, Breaking Peace > wounding, 16th September 1889.


    Reference Number: t18890916-757
    Offence: Breaking Peace > wounding
    Verdict: Guilty > lesser offence
    Punishment: Imprisonment > hard labour
    See original
    757. JOHN ROWLEY (65) , Feloniously wounding Mary Ann Potts, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

    MARY ANN POTTS . I am the wife of George Potts, a bookbinder, of 64, Whitecross Street—on September 2nd, a little while after twelve o'clock, I was in Whitecross Street with Mary Ann Short; the prisoner came up by Basket Alley, and said, "If you will come up here I will give you 2s."—I pulled my shoulder away from him, and hit him on his face with my open hand, and told him to be off—we went towards home, and he came behind me and stabbed me—he was the only man there at the time; I fell, and remember no more.

    By the COURT. He was the worse for drink; he put one hand in his pocket when he first came up—he offered me 2s. for a certain purpose, and my friend called him an old beast—after I hit him he ran away, and he stabbed me about five minutes afterwards in my right side—I screamed out—I did not put my hand in his pocket, and take his money; he did not seem as if he had anything to take—I do not know him.

    MARY ANN SHORT . I am the wife of Edward Short, a tailor—on this Monday, after twelve o'clock, I came out of the Bedford Arms as they were closing—I had had a drop of drink, but I knew everything—I left my daughter to go to Royal Street, and went down Whitecross Street, and the prisoner came to Mrs. Potts, and took her by the shoulders, and said he would give her 2s. to go home with him—she told him to go home out of the cold, and perhaps his wife wanted 2s.—she struck him, and he came again, and put his hand on her shoulder—his hat fell off, and we went away, making a laugh at his offering two old ladies 2s.—I knew no more till Mrs. Potts said, "I am stabbed"—I said, "Where?"—she said, "In my side," and I saw the prisoner with a white-handled knife in his hand, making at her again—she fell—I called him a pig.

    See original
    FREDERICK GOODWIN (Policeman G 105). I was on duty on this morning, about 12. 40; Mrs. Potts made a complaint to me with Mrs. Short—they went away, and a few minutes afterwards I heard calls of "Police!" and "Murder!"—I ran up Whitecross Street, and saw the two women in the road, and the prisoner running away; I followed him to the corner of Old Street—he struggled to get away, and tried several times to stab me with this knife (produced), which he had in his right hand—he was sober—Harwood came to my assistance, and after a struggle got the knife from the prisoner, which was open—the two women then came up, and said, "This man has stabbed us"—he said, "Serve you right; you should not try to take my money"—as the women were bleeding I took him to the station, and charged him with stabbing them and attempting to stab me—he said nothing—I found 5 1/2 d. on him.

    HARWOOD (Policeman G 279). I was on duty in Whitecross Street about 12.20 a. m., and heard screams of Police!" and "Murder!" I ran in that direction, and saw the two women, and the prisoner running away from them, and Goodwin chasing him; he struggled with Goodwin, and was in the act of striking him with his hand—I caught hold of his hand, and found this open knife in it.

    GEORGE EUGENE YARROW . I am divisional surgeon to the police—I examined Mary Ann Potts at 1 a. m.; she had a punctured wound on the outer side of her left breast, half an inch deep and about an inch long—there were corresponding cuts in her jacket, stays, and chemise—the upper edge of her stays was cut through where the binding goes over—this knife would cause it—the wound was not dangerous in itself, but it was in a dangerous part; it did not penetrate the chest wall; it was stopped by the rib, or it would have gone into the lungs—there must have been some violence, or it would not have gone through the bound part of the stays.

    The prisoner, in his statement before the Magistrate and in his defence, said that the women attacked him first, and struck him in his face, and he resisted; and, having a knife in his hand cutting tobacco, it came in contact with them, and that he was trying to save his property.

    GUILTY of unlawfully wounding. — Twenty Months' Hard Labour. There

    was another indictment against the prisoner for wounding Mary Ann Short.

  • #2
    It is an interesting story Capn Jack but I'm not sure it is relevant for comparison.

    There is no evidence that JtR was agile or athletic. There is no real evidence that he jumped over the fence at Hanbury Street for instance and no evidence that he sprinted from Mitre Square - he was just damn lucky to evade all the possible captors in the vicinity.

    I have never regarded Tumblety as a serious contender for the murders (but yes for some of the letters) and his age is one of the minus factors against him, but NOT because it would potentially make him less physically fit. My objection is that none of the key eye-witnesses report the suspect they saw with one or other of the victims as being this age. It is difficult enough to reconcile the witnesses' reported age of c.30 with 22 year old Chapman/Klosowsky, but near impossible with 55+ Tumblety.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Nell, I merely make the observation that age was not a hindrance to stabbing women on the street in the LVP, after they refused to go up a dark alley. You'll note he had less than sixpence on him, after offering the women two shillings for his pleasure, which says to me he wanted to hurt them with his knife, rather than indulge a sexual passion.
      And I'm still trying to recollect the two women who were similarly accosted just prior to the murder of one of the victims.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Cap'n Jack,

        I think you're referring to Sarah Lewis and her friend [or Mrs Kennedy and her widowed sister] who were propositioned in the Bethnal Green Road on 7th November 1888.

        Regards,

        Simon
        Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Ap,

          If Tumblety had been involved in some of the Canonicals, theres no need for it to be him doing the actual "collecting". I would think that If he was involved at all, it might have a connection with a collection he allegedly had, but most dismiss that as pure fabrication created by the source of the story.

          If however it was a true account, and if Tumblety was inspired to collect his specimens from "free-range" victims, he could have commissioned a killer to obtain one, or some. Since I cant imagine Tumblety's involvement at all, without it being tied to the story regarding a uteri collection..and since Tumblety has no real medical skills, why would he need to be the one doing the cutting? Unskilled is just unskilled, fake shingle or not.

          I would think that we would be only talking about the victims that had abdominal wounds as the post mortem cut focus, and had internal organs, intact or partially intact wombs, taken from them.

          Through some previous discussions, it came up that the story that had some Teaching Hospitals being approached by an American "Doctor" the previous Fall for uterus specimens to accompany research papers being sent to America, it was noted that the 20 pound finders fee offered had the equivalent value of approx 1200-1500 pounds sterling today.

          To imagine that a thug or street hood would be enticed by a windfall like that, is not just fanciful exploration I feel.

          Best regards.

          Comment

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