Guy Logan and Tumblety

[mklhawley]

Greetings all,

We haven't had a Tumblety thread for some time, so...

In the above excerpt from Masters of Crime (1928) provided by Stewart Evans, Guy Logan mentions Andrews' Ripper trip to America as it related to Mary Kelly's murder being the last. Among other reasons, we know the ripper suspect was Francis Tumblety, but it's interesting to note that Logan was more disposed to believe Kelly was the last victim, because of Tumblety leaving the country just after her murder. Why would he be more disposed if he didn't consider Tumblety a serious suspect?

Some have argued that Logan did not receive inside information from Scotland Yard, but merely read US papers. The problem is that US papers specifically mentioned Andrews traveling through Canada, not America. Besides, 'strength of important information, ...never disclosed' was never reported, so this clearly suggests inside information. He certainly got his facts correct, such as Andrews going in December 1888.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

" . . . Andrews was sent specially to America in December, 1888, in search of the Whitechapel fiend . . ."

This is not true.

Inspector Andrews was sent to Canada in December 1888. He was sent to effect the extradition of Roland Gideon Israel Barnett.

"Nothing, however, came of it, and the Inspector's mission was a failure."

Why was Inspector Andrews' search in America for the Whitechapel fiend a failure?

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

" . . . Andrews was sent specially to America in December, 1888, in search of the Whitechapel fiend . . ."

This is not true.
Inspector Andrews was sent to Canada in December 1888. He was sent to effect the extradition of Roland Gideon Israel Barnett.

Hi Simon,
It certainly was true. Logan is not talking about Scotland Yard's publicized Barnett cover story; he had inside information, and Roger Palmer confirmed that Logan is spot on. Point: Logan did not get his information wrong.

"Nothing, however, came of it, and the Inspector's mission was a failure."

Why was Inspector Andrews' search in America for the Whitechapel fiend a failure?

Your question's a red herring, since it has nothing to do with the point of my thread, but it's a good question. Notice that the failure was not about Scotland Yard's belief that Tumblety may have been the killer, but about collecting evidence specific to 'the strength of important information.' We know that Tumblety hung out in Canada during the 1880's, especially Toronto, so Andrews going there conforms perfectly to Logan's comments.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Logan "had inside information." "Logan did not get his information wrong."

Based on Logan's brief few words on the matter, how have you assessed this as a fact?

And how does Andrews hanging out "in Canada during the 1880s, especially Toronto", conform "perfectly to Logan's comments"?

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

Logan "had inside information." "Logan did not get his information wrong."

Based on Logan's brief few words on the matter, how have you assessed this as a fact?

There is no other alternative, except if you're in denial. To think that Logan collected this info from US papers is quite the stretch.

And how does Andrews hanging out "in Canada during the 1880s, especially Toronto", conform "perfectly to Logan's comments"?

Andrews crossed the Atlantic based upon the strength of important information. The last time Tumblety was in Toronto was early 1888 just before he left for England...and Andrews makes his way to that very location. Interesting.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

"No other alternative"?

Okay . . . if you say so.

So from whom did Logan receive his information?

Regards,

Simon

[Mayerling]

I can see that the chapter is about the "Whitechapel Murders" (hence a chapter in "Masters of Crime"), and the comment that is a link to Doc Tumblety presedes Logan about to comment about the rumors about Dr. Neil Cream (Logan seperated these by ending one paragraph and beginning a new one, but it is obvious that he must have had "doctors" in his head as an underlying stream of consciousness. Anything else in the chapter of interest?

Jeff

[mklhawley]

I can see that the chapter is about the "Whitechapel Murders" (hence a chapter in "Masters of Crime"), and the comment that is a link to Doc Tumblety presedes Logan about to comment about the rumors about Dr. Neil Cream (Logan seperated these by ending one paragraph and beginning a new one, but it is obvious that he must have had "doctors" in his head as an underlying stream of consciousness. Anything else in the chapter of interest?

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I only have the comments of Robin Odell discussing this chapter, who states that this person was an 'American Jew', which further demonstrates Logan did not get his info from the US press. Irish Tumblety was not an American Jew. His source, whoever it was, clearly did not give a name. Logan does discuss him being a reporter during the ripper murders and interviewing Dr. Forbes Winslow.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Jeff,

I only have the comments of Robin Odell discussing this chapter, who states that this person was an 'American Jew', which further demonstrates Logan did not get his info from the US press. Irish Tumblety was not an American Jew. His source, whoever it was, clearly did not give a name. Logan does discuss him being a reporter during the ripper murders and interviewing Dr. Forbes Winslow.

Sincerely,
Mike

I dont believe either Tumblety's Birthplace or Birthdate have been established conclusively Mike, there has been suggestion that Canada or Ireland may be the case and someone here suggested once that perhaps it was Maryland, in the good old U S of A, based upon his own research. To my knowledge there is no factual baseline for a claim that he was Irish....but certainly that he was of Irish decent.

The family was based in Rochester also...which is a definitive link to America within his first few years.

Cheers Mike

[mklhawley]

I dont believe either Tumblety's Birthplace or Birthdate have been established conclusively Mike, there has been suggestion that Canada or Ireland may be the case and someone here suggested once that perhaps it was Maryland, in the good old U S of A, based upon his own research. To my knowledge there is no factual baseline for a claim that he was Irish....but certainly that he was of Irish decent.

The family was based in Rochester also...which is a definitive link to America within his first few years.

Cheers Mike

Hi Mike,

It's more conclusive than you think. I believe Riordan and others nailed it.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7430

Check out the above thread.

Mike