Question about Tumblety's origins

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Hi Siobhan,

How cool is this! By the way, my article in Rip 116 called Tumblety and the Elixir of Life goes into Tumblety trips brought on by his ill health, such as Hot Springs. His health began to deteriorate after the Civil War and it looks like he was certainly looking for an Irish cure of his ailments (something his herbal medicines certainly failed to fix). It also lends credence to young Martin McGarry's claim.

Sincerely,

Mike

Congratulations on your article Mike.
You must be the most distinguished expert on T at this stage!

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Livia,
Thanks a lot for posting those documents.
I got some feedback on Tumblety request in Anglo-Celt from someone who has sent me screen shots from ancestry.com claiming Tumblety was from Dublin.
Will post them if they are relevant when I get a chance. Not looked at 'em yet!
Thanks to all.

[mklhawley]

Mayerling,

Not that i'm aware of. However, I thought it has been established Tumblety had nothing to do with it? It would be quite a task to put Tumblety involved in the assassination especially after it's been shown at least up to this point he had nothing to do with it. Even if he was, does that make him any more of a suspect? Today, courts wouldn't stand for that circumstantial evidence as proof enough.

No matter how much Tumblety supporters use him, there is nothing there concrete that makes him anything more than someone named as a more possible suspect.

He may have hated immigrants, and/or women but nothing to support

DRoy,

There is nothing concrete on any suspect. Are you trying to say this should be a standard to minimalize him? He is the only suspect Assistant Commissioner Anderson was recorded to name as a Ripper suspect at the peak of the murders, not to the press, but to US Chiefs of Police. Anderson would not have gotten personally involved if they did not take him seriously. The only reason why he stopped considering him a suspect is because Tumblety was in New York City during the post-Kelly murders.

Jeff,

I do not recall anything connecting the two.

Sincerely,

Mike

[DRoy]

Mayerling,

Not that i'm aware of. However, I thought it has been established Tumblety had nothing to do with it? It would be quite a task to put Tumblety involved in the assassination especially after it's been shown at least up to this point he had nothing to do with it. Even if he was, does that make him any more of a suspect? Today, courts wouldn't stand for that circumstantial evidence as proof enough.

No matter how much Tumblety supporters use him, there is nothing there concrete that makes him anything more than someone named as a more possible suspect.

He may have hated immigrants, and/or women but nothing to support

[Mayerling]

Has anyone, in studying Tumblety's arrest in the wake of Lincoln's Assassination found any link of the Doctor with one Captain John Celeste, or Joao Celestino, a Portuguese ship captain in Washington, D.C. in April 1865, who was also arrested at the time as an intimate co-conspirator of Booth and John Surratt? An article on "The Unknown Conspirator" was published in 1957 in American Heritage Magazine, written by Phillip Van Doren Stern, and was subsequently discussed in Theodore Roscoe's 1959 work, "Web of Conspiracy". As they are now the only two co-conspirators who we know were arrested, but were not tried in the June 1865 case, perhaps there was some connection between them regarding the kidnapping plot or the assassination plot.

Jeff

[Livia]

One more:



Line 121

[Livia]

You may find these documents of historical interest to your
timeline:

[mklhawley]

Link here to request by me for info about Tumblety's possible origins in Cavan, Ireland.
It started out as a simple letter to readers of the Anglo-Celt but one staff journalist decided to morph it into a feature story (with inaccuracies). In fairness to the local journo, he figured out where "Inniskillen Falls" is in Ireland. Tumblety mentioned it in one of his autobiographies.
Yes, indeed, "Inniskillen Falls" are in Cavan and not Co. Fermanagh...
In the 18-19th centuries they claimed to do cures for all sorts of ailments (a bit like Lourdes) - anything to get the American tourists to come to Ireland!
Will let you know if anything credible comes back from Anglo-Celt readers. Cavan genealogy have come up with nothing as already got on to them. I did get a few lengthy emails already - from people on Casebook who prefer other suspects to Tumblety....Typical that! didn't realise the Anglo-Celt newspaper was so widely read.
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/inthepa...avan/#comments

Hi Siobhan,

How cool is this! By the way, my article in Rip 116 called Tumblety and the Elixir of Life goes into Tumblety trips brought on by his ill health, such as Hot Springs. His health began to deteriorate after the Civil War and it looks like he was certainly looking for an Irish cure of his ailments (something his herbal medicines certainly failed to fix). It also lends credence to young Martin McGarry's claim.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Bridewell]

Hi Mike,
I came across that record just after I joined Casebook and got very excited. Posted info on here and got knocked back...
But thanks anyway...

Hi Siobhan,

Good to see that it hasn't put you off

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Link here to request by me for info about Tumblety's possible origins in Cavan, Ireland.
It started out as a simple letter to readers of the Anglo-Celt but one staff journalist decided to morph it into a feature story (with inaccuracies). In fairness to the local journo, he figured out where "Inniskillen Falls" is in Ireland. Tumblety mentioned it in one of his autobiographies.
Yes, indeed, "Inniskillen Falls" are in Cavan and not Co. Fermanagh...
In the 18-19th centuries they claimed to do cures for all sorts of ailments (a bit like Lourdes) - anything to get the American tourists to come to Ireland!
Will let you know if anything credible comes back from Anglo-Celt readers. Cavan genealogy have come up with nothing as already got on to them. I did get a few lengthy emails already - from people on Casebook who prefer other suspects to Tumblety....Typical that! didn't realise the Anglo-Celt newspaper was so widely read.

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/inthepaper/articles/2013/05/29/4016074-was-jack-the-ripper-really-from-cavan/#comments

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Hi Siobhan,

Joe just informed me that his post on Jtrforus was six years ago, and since then they have confirmed that the "Francis Tumblety" who was listed in the Griffiths Valuation Records, and who had rented a house & office in the Town Park of Swords, was NOT the man who would later become the Ripper Suspect. It was a different man with the same name.

Sincerely,

Mike

Hi Mike,
I came across that record just after I joined Casebook and got very excited. Posted info on here and got knocked back...
But thanks anyway...

[mklhawley]

Hi Siobhan,

Joe just informed me that his post on Jtrforus was six years ago, and since then they have confirmed that the "Francis Tumblety" who was listed in the Griffiths Valuation Records, and who had rented a house & office in the Town Park of Swords, was NOT the man who would later become the Ripper Suspect. It was a different man with the same name.

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Oops! I left out a critical piece with Francis' mother's maiden name. The 'x' in 'Conxelly' as a slash through it, so it's most likely 'Conelly'.

James Tumelty
Married Margaret Conxelly(Conelly)
RDA, D 2, 1844, 2-6

[mklhawley]

Here's another possibility. I do have Francis' mother's maiden name. Maybe the father, James, married her in the same area in Ireland.

Monroe County records (City of Rochester is in) Index to Newspapers published, which has,

James Tumelty
Married Margaret Conxelly
RDA, D 2, 1844, 2-6



Also, Joe Chetcuti created a Tumblety timeline on JTRForums:
Joe Chetcuti05-08-2007, 09:26 PM
January - May 1830

Tumblety was born in Ireland, possibly in either Roscommon or Westmeath County. There were three times when his family provided the doctor's age, and all three times his birthdate would have appeared somewhere in the January - May 1830 time frame. The doctor constantly fluctuated his age, such as on the passenger list documents of his transatlantic voyages. But this deception was not practiced by his family who was consistent about giving the doctor's age when required.

1844

Tumblety's older brother Lawrence had established himself in Rochester, New York by this year.

1847

During Christmas time 2005, Alan Sharp and I did some Ireland research together. Alan discovered that a Francis Tumblety was listed in the Griffiths Valuation Records as having rented a house and office in the Towns Park of Swords County, Ireland. This listing appeared in 1847 & 1848. Alan believes the name Francis Tumblety was uncommon, so we may have gotten lucky here in finding our young man.

It should be mentioned though that Tim Riordan has proof that Tumblety (along with his mother, sister, and cousin) traveled on the Ashburton from Great Britain to New York. They arrived on June 21, 1847 and we feel this was Francis Tumblety's initial arrival in America.

Alan says the name Tumblety is a derivation of Tumulty, a name which uniquely hails from the counties of Roscommon and Westmeath, Ireland. But just in case Tumblety was born in Swords County, I checked into the Baptismal Records of the old St. Colmcilles Church in Swords. It turned out that the Baptismal Records for Swords have not survived for the years prior to 1835.

I'd like to thank both Alan and Tim for allowing me to share this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe Chetcuti05-10-2007, 05:14 PM
I just heard from Alan and he clarified that Swords is a town in County Dublin. (Swords is not a county itself.) It's located in the northern part of County Dublin near the airport.

In June, I'll post Part Two of the Timeline (1848-1854) but these were the mysterious years. I doubt if I'll be adding anything new to what is already known. Anybody can feel free to jump in and submit tidbits to the Timeline whenever you like.




Sincerely,

Mike

[curious4]

Tumblety

Hello all,

Purely speculative, but as I am interested in surnames and their meanings and have been trying to find the possible origins of Tumblety or Twumblety without success (haven't gone very deeply into this, I must admit). I wonder whether the name could have come from the gaelic tuama, a grave or burial mound, and thus the name could mean "the people who live near the burial mound".

Best wishes,
C4

The surname Tuama does seem to exist, perhaps from the 1960s, when it became fashionable among young irish people to take the gaelic form of their names.