Tumblety and Ireland

[mklhawley]

Why not sh`boom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9G0-...eature=related

Isn't there a song there?

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

T's arrival on famine ship from Ireland

Thanks to all those who helped me with some of the questions I posed earlier on this thread about Tumblety's interview with New York World. Too many people to mention...so kind.

Unfortunately, I have another question -
(Forgive my ignorance if I should already know the answer to this!)
Is there any record already published of the Tumblety clan's arrival in New York on the famine ship in 1847? Didn't all new arrivals have to sign a register before they could be admitted into the US?
The record of their departure from Liverpool is included in O'Riordan's book but what about their arrival?
Any clues?

[Bridewell]

Biddy

(Forgive my ignorance if I should already know the answer to this!)
Is there any record already published of the Tumblety clan's arrival in New York on the famine ship in 1847? Didn't all new arrivals have to sign a register before they could be admitted into the US?
The record of their departure from Liverpool is included in O'Riordan's book but what about their arrival?
Any clues?

Hi Siobhan,

Ancestry shows a 20-year-old Biddy Tumblety, a dressmaker who arrived in New York from Liverpool on 17th April 1849 on the 'Rainbow'. I don't know if that helps. It's the closest, in terms of date, that I've been able to find.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Hi Siobhan,

Ancestry shows a 20-year-old Biddy Tumblety, a dressmaker who arrived in New York from Liverpool on 17th April 1849 on the 'Rainbow'. I don't know if that helps. It's the closest, in terms of date, that I've been able to find.

Regards, Bridewell.

Thanks Bridewell.
Tumblety had 8 sisters. I hadn't heard of a Biddy though it used to be a common name in Ireland. The sister closest in age to him was Ann.
T would have been 19 in 1849 and if Biddy was 20 it is unlikely she was his sister as where would Ann then fit in the picture - if you follow the logic...

[Phil Carter]

Thanks Bridewell.
Tumblety had 8 sisters. I hadn't heard of a Biddy though it used to be a common name in Ireland. The sister closest in age to him was Ann.
T would have been 19 in 1849 and if Biddy was 20 it is unlikely she was his sister as where would Ann then fit in the picture - if you follow the logic...

Hello Siobhan,

Without appearing to sell fish to a fishmonger, had any of the sisters the name of Bridget (Biddy, Bridey) in any of their forenames? Ann Bridget, for example? I was under the impression, possibly faulty, that Biddy and Bridey were shortened versions of the name Bridget? And also, is it possible that a Bridget, first or 2nd forename, returned to Ireland at a later date? Perhaps you already know any of this, if so my apologies,

Best wishes

Phil

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Siobhan,

Without appearing to sell fish to a fishmonger, had any of the sisters the name of Bridget (Biddy, Bridey) in any of their forenames? Ann Bridget, for example? I was under the impression, possibly faulty, that Biddy and Bridey were shortened versions of the name Bridget? And also, is it possible that a Bridget, first or 2nd forename, returned to Ireland at a later date? Perhaps you already know any of this, if so my apologies,

Best wishes

Phil

Biddy is also a slang name for a woman or a girl ! hence the term "Old Biddy"

[mklhawley]

Hello Siobhan,

Without appearing to sell fish to a fishmonger, had any of the sisters the name of Bridget (Biddy, Bridey) in any of their forenames? Ann Bridget, for example? I was under the impression, possibly faulty, that Biddy and Bridey were shortened versions of the name Bridget? And also, is it possible that a Bridget, first or 2nd forename, returned to Ireland at a later date? Perhaps you already know any of this, if so my apologies,

Best wishes

Phil

Hi Phil,

Tumblety had a sister named Bridget (post 58). Hmmm.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Siobhan.

I’m not really sure what you mean here since the information you seem to be looking for already appears in Tim Riordan’s book.

The passenger list for the ship The Ashburton can be found in Year 1847; Microfilm serial M237; Roll M237-67; List # 411. On it are listed Francis (age 17), his mother, his sister Ann (22), and a cousin, James (24), who traveled on the Ashburton from Liverpool to New York under the name "Tumbleton." They arrived in the Port of New York on June 21, 1847.

Is this what you are looking for?

Wolf.

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Thanks Wolf.
No I got the info you refer to already from the O'Riordan book.
The reason I asked about the record for their arrival in New York is that newcomers to the US were obliged (I think) to name their place of origin (with some kind of address) for example, Co. Meath, Republic of Ireland. Nobody knows where the Tumblety's lived in Ireland before their departure on that famine ship. I thought a record of arrival in New York might answer that question.
I saw a programme on telly the other night that tried to trace an Irish woman who arrived in the US, who married an Italian in New York, who then murdered her. Anyway when investigators were in the archives in New York to see if there was a listing of her arrival in the US, sure enough, there was. The record indicated where in Ireland she originated from. In fact, as far as I could see, everyone listed on the page had put some kind of addess in Ireland to show where they originated from. That's what got me thinking there must be a record of where the T clan lived in Ireland before their arrival in the US written in the arrivals register in New York.Sorry to be so long winded, but that was why I asked the question in the first place! I just wasn't aware if someone had already checked it in the New York archives and they came up with a blank. I still don't know.

Hi Mike,
Are you serious he had a sister Bridget? She would be 20 in 1849 - very close in age to Ann while Francis would have been 19 in that year. Does that mean Bridget and Ann were twins? This is just an aside. I'm not sure I care that much about "Biddy" unless she can tell us more about the man who torments us - Francis.

Thanks to everyone for replies to my question re record of Tumblety's arrival in US...

[martin wilson]

I wonder if Tumblety ever considered becoming a priest?, there is an American character,provocatively named Mr Butcher, in Aliester Crowleys' scabrous novel Moonchild who was said to have left the priesthood.
Moonchild as evidentiary value would be worthless to the most determined cat hanger of course, but other than an extraordinary reference to Annie Besant we come across the character Balloch,a professional abortionist.
Balloch was Edward William Berridge, Golden Dawn member,and a follower of Thomas Lake Harris, and according to Sue Young histories something of a sex pest.
Playing the game of connections we have Berridge,homeopathist, USA,Liverpool,London.
Tumblety, homeopathist,of a sort, USA,Liverpool,London.
All the best.

[Magpie]

I realize this is a dead thread, but I thought I'd point out that there's a Queenstown, a Dublin and an Inniskillen all in Ontario within spitting distance of Niagara falls.

[mklhawley]

I realize this is a dead thread, but I thought I'd point out that there's a Queenstown, a Dublin and an Inniskillen all in Ontario within spitting distance of Niagara falls.

Hi Magpie,

I literally live 20 minutes away from Inniskillen, Ontario; just on the other side of the border. If true, it confirms Roger Palmer's revelation that Tumblety often visited Ontario, Canada, in the 1880's (the Inniskillen Falls trip was in 1882).

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Hi Magpie,

The only thing about the Inniskillen I find in Ontario, though, is Inniskellen Winery. Is this what you're referring to? Does it have some history into the nineteenth century? The Ireland thing still fits, especially when Cobh, Ireland, used to be called Queenstown between 1850 and 1920.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Magpie]

Hi Magpie,

The only thing about the Inniskillen I find in Ontario, though, is Inniskellen Winery. Is this what you're referring to? Does it have some history into the nineteenth century? The Ireland thing still fits, especially when Cobh, Ireland, used to be called Queenstown between 1850 and 1920.

Sincerely,

Mike

Well, there's the wine area, but there's also a village, spelled "Enniskillen" (still near Niagara) and a hamlet (just outside Markham).

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Well, there's the wine area, but there's also a village, spelled "Enniskillen" (still near Niagara) and a hamlet (just outside Markham).

Tumblety mentioned Inniskillen Falls in one of his autobiogs and said he went there during a visit to IRELAND. Mind you he was a liar!!!