Article: Tumblety Born in Brockville, Ontario

[mklhawley]

Tumblety was NOT born in Brockville, Ontario. He was born in, or near, Dublin, Ireland, around the year 1830. In 1847, when he was 17 years old, he emigrated to the U.S. with his mother, sister Anne and a cousin named James (his brother Lawrence was already living in Rochester at the time). They are listed under the name Tumbleton on the ship Ashburton which traveled from Liverpool and arrived in New York on the 21st of June, 1847.

The rest of the Brockville Times article is filled with errors:

Tumblety did leave a will. In fact he left three conflicting wills (or at least three wills were attributed to him) which caused the legal fight amongst his heirs.
Tumblety was not in Washington when he was arrested as Dr. Blackburn, but in St. Louis.
He was not followed back to New York by “Scotland Yard men.”
He did not move to New Orleans after 1888 and live for many years in the French Quarter.
Tumblety WAS arrested in New Orleans on the charge of picking the pocket of Henry Govan (variously described as being an employee of the U.S. District Attorney; a “government clerk” and an employee of the Customs House) but this was in March of 1881, not after 1888; the British Consul did not come to his defence and the case was dropped because there was absolutely no evidence that Tumblety had stolen Govan’s wallet (Govan admitted that he may have just lost it).

Wolf.

Hi Wolf,

I saw some of the research Joe C., Alan S., and Tim R. did about Tumblety being born in Ireland and discovering him coming to America in 1847. According to Joe C., they are only assuming Tumblety's 1847 trip was the first time he'd been across the Atlantic. If we can confirm the Brockville data is baseless, then this would support the Ireland conclusion.

Mike

[Chadwick]

Elaborate?

Hi Mike,

Perhaps. Interesting when they say he lived in the French Quarter most of his time in New Orleans when just yestersay, I watched a television show where a "Ripper" copycat starting killing men in the French Quarter.

Yours truly

Hi Corey. I've never heard of this. What were the details? What was the name of the show?

[Chris Scott]

Hi Wolf
In your message you wrote:
In 1847, when he was 17 years old, he emigrated to the U.S. with his mother, sister Anne and a cousin named James (his brother Lawrence was already living in Rochester at the time). They are listed under the name Tumbleton on the ship Ashburton which traveled from Liverpool and arrived in New York on the 21st of June, 1847.

I looked up this data and the four individuals listed are:
James Tumbleton aged 26 farmer
Margaret Tumbleton aged 52
Ann Tumbleton aged 20
Frances Tumbleton aged 17
These four travelled, as you wrote, on the ship Ashburton from Liverpool and arrived on 21 June 1847. However, the Frances noted above is listed as FEMALE, as the spelling of the name (with an e) would denote. Also, oddly, this Frances Tumbleton is listed as born in Norway! (see below)

I can only find one instance of a FRANCIS Tumbleton as follows:
First name: FRANCIS
Last name: TUMBLETON
Occupation: GENTLEMAN
Age: 32
Sex: Male
Ship: Nevada
Arrived: 13 September 1869
Country: USA
Port of departure: Liverpool and Queenstown
Paid by: Self
Place of birth: C
All other fields are blank or marked Unknown or Not Listed

[Chris Scott]

Below is the full transcription of the four "Tumbleton" passengers on the Ashburton on 21 June 1847. This is from the Ancestry website and confirms that the Frances Tumbleton listed on this manifest was female:

Name: Tumbleton, Jas.
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Embarkation: Liverpool
Ship: Ashburton
Occupation: farmer
Passengers: 330
Compartment: Steerage
Native Country: Great Britain
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 21 Jun 1847
Transit Type: Staying in the U.S.

Name: Tumbleton, Margt.
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Embarkation: Liverpool
Ship: Ashburton
Occupation: none
Passengers: 330
Compartment: Steerage
Native Country: Great Britain
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 21 Jun 1847
Transit Type: Staying in the U.S.

Name: Tumbleton, Ann
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Embarkation: Liverpool
Ship: Ashburton
Occupation: none
Passengers: 330
Compartment: Steerage
Native Country: Great Britain
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 21 Jun 1847
Transit Type: Staying in the U.S.


Name: Tumbleton, Frances
Age: 17
Gender: Female
Embarkation: Liverpool
Ship: Ashburton
Occupation: none
Passengers: 330
Compartment: Steerage
Native Country: Great Britain
Destination: USA
Arrival Date: 21 Jun 1847
Transit Type: Staying in the U.S.

[corey123]

Hi Chadwick,

Criminal Minds. I shows on A&E quite a bit.

Yours truly

[Chris Scott]

Just a quick note...
I was looking for a pic of the Ashburton when I found out that the name of the ship was actually the "Lord Ashburton" and it was one of a group which were collectively named "famine ships" in the aftermath of the Irish potato famine.
The Lord Ashburton was also used for some forced emigrations, notably from the land of Lord Palmerston in 1847 which ended in tragedy. If anyone is interested I will post some details of this

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Mike.

I saw some of the research Joe C., Alan S., and Tim R. did about Tumblety being born in Ireland and discovering him coming to America in 1847. According to Joe C., they are only assuming Tumblety's 1847 trip was the first time he'd been across the Atlantic. If we can confirm the Brockville data is baseless, then this would support the Ireland conclusion.

An interesting theory based on what, exactly? The “argumentum ad ignorantiam” logical fallacy that because we can’t prove this wasn’t his first trip across the Atlantic therefore it is proof that it was? That’s indefensible. It also goes against the known facts (admittedly sparse) as we have them and the economic realities of the first half of the nineteenth century.

The Tumblety family seems to have been fairly poor and lived for many years in a poor, and sparsely populated, area of Rochester. With the head of the family, James Tumblety, being in his seventies and listed with no occupation in the city directory, it is apparent that they were living off of the wages of son Lawrence, the gardener of a Rochester doctor, and it is highly unlikely that they could afford “trips” to Britain and back for three of the family members (assuming cousin James paid his own way). Only the well off could even dream of doing something this extravagant.

I should also add that Tumblety himself stated that he was born in Dublin on at least two occasions that we know of.

As I have pointed out, the Brockville Times article is filled with errors which makes it suspect and great caution should be taken when using it as proof of anything. I know you like to ignore such warnings, Mike, but you will find that that just makes your opinions as unreliable as the sources you like to use.

Wolf.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Chris.

You have four family members named Tumbleton travelling together who match four family members of the Tumblety family (although the age of Margaret is off by 7 years, not unheard of, as you well know, but the rest are spot on). Unfortunately we have Francis listed as a female named Frances but Tim Riordan points out that “several other people with men’s names are listed as female and it is likely that the clerk was not too careful.” Prince of Quacks Note 3, page 211.

The Francis Tumbleton you mention who arrived back in New York on board the Nevada is Dr. Tumblety.

Wolf.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Wolf
many thanks for your comments on the clerical error which, as you say, I have certainly encountered before!
Any thoughts on why the country of birth would be down as Norway? That does seem odd to me, I must say.
Regards
Chris S

[The Grave Maurice]

Let me see if I've got this right: a male born in Dublin is apt to be described as a female born in Norway because clerks were prone to making errors? Pretty much destroys my faith in historical records.

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike.



An interesting theory based on what, exactly? The “argumentum ad ignorantiam” logical fallacy that because we can’t prove this wasn’t his first trip across the Atlantic therefore it is proof that it was? That’s indefensible. It also goes against the known facts (admittedly sparse) as we have them and the economic realities of the first half of the nineteenth century.

The Tumblety family seems to have been fairly poor and lived for many years in a poor, and sparsely populated, area of Rochester. With the head of the family, James Tumblety, being in his seventies and listed with no occupation in the city directory, it is apparent that they were living off of the wages of son Lawrence, the gardener of a Rochester doctor, and it is highly unlikely that they could afford “trips” to Britain and back for three of the family members (assuming cousin James paid his own way). Only the well off could even dream of doing something this extravagant.

I should also add that Tumblety himself stated that he was born in Dublin on at least two occasions that we know of.

As I have pointed out, the Brockville Times article is filled with errors which makes it suspect and great caution should be taken when using it as proof of anything. I know you like to ignore such warnings, Mike, but you will find that that just makes your opinions as unreliable as the sources you like to use.

Wolf.

Hi Wolf,

I apologize for getting you irritated by my comments. I certainly had no intentions of doing that. I can assure you I was not using the “argumentum ad ignorantiam” you claim. My concern is the “admittedly sparse” facts you admit to. I saw this, too. As you know, sparse facts can produce an illusion of truth, an erroneous pattern of evidence leading to a falsehood. I have no hidden agenda on this issue, except to find the truth. Personally, I like the idea he came from Ireland at 17. I merely found a conflict with Joe Chetcuti’s comments, so I began to research. Here’s what Joe Chetcuti stated in May 2007:

“During Christmas time 2005, Alan Sharp and I did some Ireland research together. Alan discovered that a Francis Tumblety was listed in the Griffiths Valuation Records as having rented a house and office in the Towns Park of Swords County, Ireland. This listing appeared in 1847 & 1848. Alan believes the name Francis Tumblety was uncommon, so we may have gotten lucky here in finding our young man.
It should be mentioned though that Tim Riordan has proof that Tumblety (along with his mother, sister, and cousin) traveled on the Ashburton from Great Britain to New York. They arrived on June 21, 1847 and we feel this was Francis Tumblety's initial arrival in America.”

When I first read this, I was confused that Francis Tumblety was listed in the Griffiths Valuation Records for 1848 and at the same time Tim R. had proof “Tumblety” was on the Ashburton one year prior. How can they both be correct? To me, there is a flaw somewhere, so I decided to investigate.

I then found the Brockville Times article, and I thought it should go on Casebook. In 1903, the Brockville folks were certainly confident he came from there. Why so specific?

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

...What is also interesting to me is that the Griffiths Valuation Records of Towns Park of Swords County, Ireland, in 1848 has the exact name of Francis Tumblety, while the Lord Ashburton ship record of 1847 has a "TFRANCES TUMBLETON" (female born in Norway). If they truly conflict, wouldn't we go with the Griffiths records because of their accuracy? If we did, it seems we must find Dr. T arriving to the US a little later. The problem here is that the canal Captain stated Francis was peddling pornographic material on his boat as a boy.

... OR neither of these individuals in Ireland are our Dr. T, which opens up the possibility that he was born in Canada. It is true that Dr. T twice stated he was born in Dublin (which conflicts with the Ashburton record), but any other time this pathological lier says something we chalk it down as another deception.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Chris and Mike.

Any thoughts on why the country of birth would be down as Norway? That does seem odd to me, I must say.

...What is also interesting to me is that the Griffiths Valuation Records of Towns Park of Swords County, Ireland, in 1848 has the exact name of Francis Tumblety, while the Lord Ashburton ship record of 1847 has a "TFRANCES TUMBLETON" (female born in Norway). If they truly conflict, wouldn't we go with the Griffiths records because of their accuracy?

It’s been a while since I’d looked at the passenger list in question so I did that again today. Here are some points of interest:

The information provided by the passenger list for the Ashburton (Year 1847; Microfilm serial M237; Roll M237-67; List # 411) is fairly sparse compared to the information provided by the Castle Garden web site. There is a reason for this as I shall make clear.

The actual passenger list has Tumblety’s first name as “Francis” (the male spelling, not Frances, the female spelling, and not "TFrances" as in the Castle Garden website)

The passenger list does have Francis as a female but there is not an F next to his name, rather, since he is listed underneath his mother’s name, and above his sister’s, there is a ditto followed by a line, as in “ — (this is also next to his sister’s name). As I pointed out earlier, Tim Riordan has stated that the passenger list has other instances where obvious male names are identified as female and it is easy to see that this might merely be an error.

The passenger list shows “The Country to which they severally belong” as being “Great Britain” and “The Country to which they intend to become inhabitants” as “USA.”

That’s it for the actual passenger list from the Ashburton. But what about the information provided by the Castle Garden website? “TFrances Tumbleton” whose country of birth is listed as Norway?

First lets take “TFrances.” This appears to be some computer glitch caused by the Castle Garden system and is not taken from the Ashburton’s passenger list. Evidence of this can be found with other names I checked on the website which also came from the Ashburton’s passenger list: TAnn, MMargt., SJames, SThos, DMargh., for example.

Second. What about the information that “TFrances’s” Country of Birth was Norway? Well, what do these people have in common?:
TFrances Tumbleton, TAnn Tumbleton, MMargt. Tumbleton, Jas. Tumbleton, Adam Grierson, Dennis Quill, Mary Quill, Wm. McGrath, Mich. Kinnally, John Connor, Cath. Connor, Thos. Connor, SJames Fitzpatrick, B. Fitzpatrick, SThos Fitzpatrick, DMargh. Fitzpatrick, Thos. Foley, Ann Quinn. Other than the obvious fact that they are all Irish, they all arrived in New York on board the Ashburton on the 21 June, 1847; they all appear on the same page of the passenger list as Tumblety and they are all listed in the Castle Garden website as Country of Birth: NORWAY; Place of Birth: S.

Other than the information of First Name, Last Name, Occupation, Age and Sex, all the rest of the information provided by the Castle Garden website on the passengers of the Ashburton is exactly the same for everybody. I even found a John Connors who arrived in New York on board the Ashburton but on the 18th of October, 1848, who is also given the exact same information including “Country of Birth: NORWAY; Place of Birth: S.”

The fault obviously lies with the website and we are left with the actual passenger lists on which Francis Tumbleton (the exact name Tumblety used when returning to New York after his first trip to England in September, 1869) arrived in New York with a mother, sister and cousin.

Wolf.

[mklhawley]

Thanks Wolf. I apologize for making you rehash old stuff, but it is certainly appreciated.

sincerely,

Mike

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Mike.

Absolutely no reason to apologize.

Mistakes can be made by the person filling out forms or records. Anyone who has done even a little genealogical research can tell you this (it's why my 4 year old great uncle is listed as a married housewife on the passenger list of the ship that he and the rest of my family arrived in Canada on). Now we have the added possibility of mistakes when information is transcribed to computers or onto the internet. I suspected that this was the case with Francis Tumbleton on the Castle Garden website and was easily able to prove it (which is always fun).

Here’s the lesson: always go back to the primary sources. Don’t ever completely trust modern technology. It will end up biting you in the ass. Here endeth the Ludite lesson.

Wolf.