Another Twomblety Oddity

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wolf,

All this stuff about a possible Balfour assassination is fascinating, especially as Monro knew about it in May 1888 but Salisbury didn't mention it to QV until August. It makes you wonder when Salisbury first learned about it.

Do you happen to have a date for the media circus greeting Walsh and McKenna on their arrival in New York?

Regards,

Simon

[aspallek]

Interesting points. I've always assumed that whatever document(s) Browne saw at Scotland Yard they predated Macnaghten's Druitt theory and probably came roughly from around the time of the assassination plot, so sometime in 1888. If true this would suggest that the plot leader theory was superseded by the "private information" received by Macnaghten and not the other way around. To put it another way, if the Druitt information seemed more compelling than the plot leader theory then perhaps the plot leader theory had little to back it up.

Wolf.

Remember that Macnaghten didn't join SY until summer of 1889. He would have known about Druitt by early 1891 from Farquharson's ramblings, which were reported to the police. We don't know when he first bought into the Druitt theory other than it was before February 1894.

Balfour became Chief Secretary for Ireland in early 1887 and served until the death of WH Smith in October 1891, so presumably the assassination plot in question took place during that interval. It is likely then that if Macnaghten did believe JtR was the leader of a plot to assassinate Balfour, this belief existed between 1889 and 1891 and was superseded by the Druitt theory sometime after hearing it from Farquharson and receiving further "private information."

So the question remains, what did Browne see or who did he talk to that convinced him of Macnaghten's belief? Could it have been a Special Branch file?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Andy,

Macnaghten had an involvement with the Metropolitan Police [in some shape or form] long before July 1889.

Following his 1881 first meeting with Monro in India ["An incident took place which changed my whole life's work"], in 1883 he turned up in London at a meeting at St James's Hall to discuss the Indian Criminal Procedure Bill.

Regards,

Simon

[celee]

...but I'm fairly certain that "Twomblety" was written in correspondence from the "doc" himself...I may be wrong...but I will check in a moment to be certain.


I also find it highly compelling that just after/around EACH of FT's known prosecutable acts of "indecency" with the 4 men named in the case, we have a murder of one of Jack's victims. Was FT shamed and embarrassed by his homosexual daliences? Did he blame women for driving him to the arms of men to find comfort and companionship? I think that it is highly possible that after he engaged in acts with men, he sought revenge upon women. He hated them for what they made him do.


Blues

Although, I think the spelling of his name and the brass rings are not important, I mentioned several years ago the fact that the Ripper Killings and Tumblety's indecent acts were real close together and suggested a very similiar scenareo. So, I agree with you.

Your friend, Brad

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Simon.

All this stuff about a possible Balfour assassination is fascinating, especially as Monro knew about it in May 1888 but Salisbury didn't mention it to QV until August. It makes you wonder when Salisbury first learned about it.

The likelihood is that this was another assassination plot against Balfour and not the Paris plot. Certainly there was mention of a plot against Balfour by the Irish Invincibles which appeared in the newspapers starting in late 1888 and which was still being referred to in February, 1889. This may be the same plot the Queen mentioned.

Do you happen to have a date for the media circus greeting Walsh and McKenna on their arrival in New York?

Walsh and McKenna arrived back in New York on the 11th of June, 1888, on board the French steamer S.S. La Normandie (not the S.S. Gascogne as Monro wrote 15 years later) and news reports out of New York began to appear in North American papers from this date.

Hi Andy.

Yes, I think we can only work with what information we have. There were probably several pots and/or rumours of plots against Balfour’s life while he was Chief Secretary for Ireland but I have only ever been able to find mention of three of them (possibly four if you include the plot Queen Victoria mentions) which were considered real enough threats to have caused some official response.

The first was part of the Jubilee Plot which was to include an assassination attempt on Balfour, in Birmingham, in October, 1887. The second was the Paris plot involving Walsh and McKenna and the third, which supposedly involved members of the Irish Invincibles, was the one I mentioned above. These three plots all came before Macnaghten had joined the Metropolitan Police. Whatever Browne saw it was likely linked to this time period and that Macnaghten was merely commenting on it at a later date.

Browne states “Sir Melville Macnaghten, appears to identify the Ripper with the leader of a plot…” Two things of interest to note. First, the phrase “appears to” seems to indicate that there was some ambiguity in what Browne had read; that perhaps Macnaghten wasn’t all that clear or expansive on the subject. Second, the fact that Browne mentions this as Macnaghten’s theory would suggest that this was something Macnaghten had come up with on his own.

So the question remains, what did Browne see or who did he talk to that convinced him of Macnaghten's belief? Could it have been a Special Branch file?

Who knows? I think Stewart Evans has suggested that it might have been and that it might have been related to Tumblety. Unfortunately there is no known evidence which proves that Tumblety was a member of any Ultra Irish Nationalist group let alone that he was high up enough in the Clan na Gael to be the leader of a plot against Balfour’s life.

Wolf.

[aspallek]

Wolf,

It appears to me that we may be overlooking the obvious. Could Browne be referring to Macnaghten's statement in his memoirs

"...that [JtR] absented himself from home at certain times, and that he committed suicide on or about the 10th of November 1888, after he had knocked out a Commissioner of Police and very nearly settled the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State"?

I have always assumed the secretary in question to have been Matthews but perhaps Brown saw it as a reference to Balfour and an assassination plot against his life.

The only slight difficulty with this is that Browne also relates the "correct" Macnaghten theory, which he credits to Basil Thompson in his history of SY. Thompson quite clearly got his information from Griffiths, who in turn lifted it from Macnaghten. So Brown was reading in essence extracts from the Aberconway memorandum (via Griffiths and Thompson) and Macnaghten's memoirs (Days of My Years) while failing to recognize that the person who committed suicide "on or about the 10th of November, after...very nearly settl(ing) the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State" (Days of My Years) and the "belief of the police (that) he was a man who committed suicide in the Thames at the end of 1888" and "who had disappeared, and seven weeks later (i.e. seven weeks after 9 Nov) his body was found floating in the Thames" (Thompson) referred to one and the same suspect.

Now the question is, have we been correct all these years in assuming Macnaghten's "secretary of state" referred to Matthews, or could it indeed have been a reference to Balfour and an assassination plot?

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Andy.

It appears to me that we may be overlooking the obvious. Could Browne be referring to Macnaghten's statement in his memoirs

"...that [JtR] absented himself from home at certain times, and that he committed suicide on or about the 10th of November 1888, after he had knocked out a Commissioner of Police and very nearly settled the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State"?

I have always assumed the secretary in question to have been Matthews but perhaps Brown saw it as a reference to Balfour and an assassination plot against his life.

Although I wrote about ambiguity in my last post I think that this would be a bit too much. I can’t see how Browne could go from “Jack the Ripper…very nearly settled the hash of one of Her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State,” to “appears to identify the Ripper with the leader of a plot to assassinate Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.” I just don’t think you can get there from here. The obvious inference is that Macnaghten was indeed writing about Mathews.

Wolf.

[perrymason]

Wolf,

You mentioned in a reply to Simon that you werent convinced that the assassination plot foiled in Paris is the Balfour plot being referenced...do we have another Balfour Plot that was known and proceeding or foiled at that same time as well?

Best regards Wolf.

[aspallek]

Hi Wolf,

I have little doubt that Macnaghten was in fact referring to Matthews as the secretary in question whose "hash" was almost "settled" by JtR. To think that Macnaghten intended Balfour one would have to believe either of two things:

1. Montague Druitt was a leader in a plot to assassinate Balfour

or

2. By 1914 Macnaghten had switched from Druitt to another suspect who also committed suicide near the end of 1888.

Either of these are rather unbelievable.

However, it just may be possible that Browne misunderstood Macnaghten's comment and assumed it to be a reference to Balfour, particularly if Browne had Balfour on his mind at the time. I recently acquired a copy of Browne. I'll have to see what he says, if anything, about any Balfour assassination plots and how conversant he may have been with such plots.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Michael.

You mentioned in a reply to Simon that you werent convinced that the assassination plot foiled in Paris is the Balfour plot being referenced...do we have another Balfour Plot that was known and proceeding or foiled at that same time as well?

Actually what I said was that I wasn’t convinced that the plot against Balfour mentioned by Queen Victoria in her diary in August, 1888, was the same as the Paris plot of May. As I also wrote in my last post, there was an assassination plot against Balfour in October, 1887, the Paris plot and a plot supposedly hatched by the Irish Invincibles which hit the newspapers in late 1888, news of which carried on into 1889. The plot mentioned by the Queen may, or may not, have been this last one.

Hi Andy.

As I said, I can’t see how Browne could make the jump from JtR very nearly settling the hash of a Secretary of State to the apparently stated theory that he was the leader of a Plot against Balfour. Not a participant, member or even lead assassin but “the leader” of the plot. This would suggest Browne was basing his statement on more specific information than was given in Macnaghten’s biography.

Wolf.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Wolf,

Browne may well have got things muddled up with an 1892 alleged plot to kill, among others, Home Secretary Henry Matthews.

This is part of a report from The Times, 21st April 1892—



Regards,

Simon

[perrymason]

Just wanted to say thanks for clarifying Wolf...I comprehend now.

Best regards

[celee]

Hi Wolf,

I have little doubt that Macnaghten was in fact referring to Matthews as the secretary in question whose "hash" was almost "settled" by JtR. To think that Macnaghten intended Balfour one would have to believe either of two things:

1. Montague Druitt was a leader in a plot to assassinate Balfour

or

2. By 1914 Macnaghten had switched from Druitt to another suspect who also committed suicide near the end of 1888.

Either of these are rather unbelievable.

However, it just may be possible that Browne misunderstood Macnaghten's comment and assumed it to be a reference to Balfour, particularly if Browne had Balfour on his mind at the time. I recently acquired a copy of Browne. I'll have to see what he says, if anything, about any Balfour assassination plots and how conversant he may have been with such plots.

Hi,

I am unclear, did Macnaughten connect the ripper to a plot against Balfour or did he connect the ripper to the leader or someone he thought to be the leader of a plot against Balfour.

Your friend, Brad

[aspallek]

After thinking the matter over, Wolf, I am inclined to agree with you.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Simon.

As I have said before, we can only go by the little information we have and that is that the plot was against “Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.”

Hi Brad.
In 1956 the book The Rise of Scotland Yard was published, written by Douglas Browne. It is evident from internal passages that Browne had access to the then closed Scotland Yard files, many of which are now gone, and so Browne’s words on the subject of the Ripper must carry some weight. Browne wrote:

“Sir Melville Macnaghten, appears to identify the Ripper with the leader of a plot to assassinate Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.”

Who the leader was or even which plot against Balfour is unclear. Stewart Evans and others have suggested that Macnaghten may have been talking about Dr. Francis Tumblety and that any evidence for this is locked away in the Special Branch files.

Wolf.