Jack the ripper was.........

[perrymason]

Dear Mike:

There were 4 individuals who were involved in some shenanigans with Francis Tumbetly...and they were:

July 27,1888-Albert Fisher
August 31st-Arthur Brice
October 14- James Crowley
November 2nd-John Doughty

However,I don't know whether or not the location of these offenses has been determined.

Thanks for that information Howard, I guess I assumed it was four total as they had paired up...perhaps one man was somewhat ambitious that day. I thought that one incident involved 4 men though, by those arrest dates that seems incorrect.

I wish I could remember, or find in my notes, things when I want them, but I do recall an article, I believe in a discussion on this suspect with the former Grey Hunter, where a bath house is mentioned. I dont know why this would seem odd to anyone though, Bath Houses and Homosexuals historically have been paired together...since at least Roman Times, and London was a Roman settlement once, was it not? Ill bet some of the bath houses locations used in Victorian Times began their life as Roman Baths. Wasnt there a fabulous one found when excavations were done in recent years in London,.... was it at the Globe? Or was it to do with building Canary Wharf? Cant recall.

There were communal, Ladies and Gentlemen baths...now where would Tumblety go?

Best regards Howard.

[White-Knight]

ok ,just for jolly..how about Tumblety and Cutbush, with Druitt the police put-up, to detract from Cutbush due to the police scandal/masonic protection tradition thing, Tumblety more circumspectly looked at , a few jews brought in to cloud the matter.. Cutbush initially as a patient of Tumblety,after all he hated his own doc, then the latter seeing a potential opportunity to extend the uterus collection due to their common interests, but with Cutbush turning out to be more of a spring heeled nutcase than organ harvester in the event ,listening more to his own voices than that of the doctor. The good doctor subsequently finding his choice a bad one, dodging the initial inquiries ,then scarpers across the pond ,leaving psycho Tom to whatever bottom stabbing took his fancy! job's a good un!
Now that's some really pschotic mysoginy,the kind necessary I'd say..not the fruit of a couple of twisted queens in the bath house as seems to have been suggested!

[The Good Michael]

I do have to hand it to you though...

I think Brad just handed it to us.

Mike

[celee]

Hi,

Tumblety and Druitt may have met because they had similar sexual urges or they may have had similar political views or just maybe they had a mutual friend.

Macnaughten's claim that the Ripper had been connected to the leader of an assasination plot against Mr. Balfour and knowing MM's prefered suspect was Druitt suggest that Druitt was connected to some one who was involved with the plot or Druitt himself was involved in such a plot.

Littlechild who would have known about any plot against Balfour, names Tumblety as a likely suspect. Tumblety, who may have been a Fenian, could have been involved in such a plot.

Everyone always wants to play the homosexual angle when refering to a possible Druitt, Tumblety connection. However Druitt may have been more political then some think.

Monroe's son claimed, I believe, that his father told him the Ripper murders were a political "Hot potato" I think the secret to the Ripper murders is wraped up with the plot against Balfour. Just maybe there were some very important people involved.

Your friend, Brad

[c.d.]

"Of all the bath houses in all the towns in all the world, he walks into mine."

c.d.

[perrymason]

"Of all the bath houses in all the towns in all the world, he walks into mine."

c.d.

I hope youre the one wearing a trench coat in the bath house.... I liked that one.

Cheers cd

[White-Knight]

Hello, Brad. I take it all back, .interesting line..have you talked to Andy Aspallek..I haven't introduced myself to him either you will gather i am new here.. but I trust you are aware he is a current active and highly knowledgable ,from what I've read, repository (ooh sorry Andy that sounds a bit rude) of all things Druitt. From what he has recently posted I at least could see Druitt starting to look a little like the marginalized leftist sympathizer or at least the public school under-achiever (no offence to leftist under achievers! I am one!) who was the central character in a really interesting play called 'Good and Bad at Games' back in the eighties..about a bullied public schoolboy who ends up taking out his various frustrations by waving a gun about at his fellow ex-pupils some years later when they are all adults during a cricket match.The chief bully had become an army officer during the troubles. It starred Mark Rylance, an RSC actor don't yaknow and was set in the seventies/eighties but referred back to the characters' schooldays in the sixties.... it immediately sprang to mind..Anyway all this would tie in well with where you seem to be headed with Mac and Balfour, Tumblety and Druitt.. If I were you I'd have a chat, there is some discussion there about why Druitt didn't make it to the debating society when he 'moved up'..maybe it was Fenian sympathies....? best of luck..

still not doing much for Druitt as a JTR suspect for me all this though,I'm much more inclined to believe Druitt was a politico than a JTR as I don't think them coppers had much of a clue about who JTR was anyway.. though all this might give fuel to one of my own theories that they were maybe looking to pin it on somebody they didn't much like..rather than someone who would have caused a lot of embarrassment but had a stronger chance of being the killer.

WK.

[harryf25]

your all idoits

jack
the ripper is cool
aaron got off with crusty

[al2sf]

Problem Solved. Thank you.

I couldn't get any sleep on this case, now I can.

Damn it I was so close !

Best Regards,

Al.

[celee]

Hi,

Back again, I was informed in the chat room that my theory involving Tumblety and Druitt had been dismissed by some as a joke. Well I am not joking my friends. I believe that Tumblety and Druitt together committed the murders. I realize I am opening myself up to ridicule but whats new.

I started this thread because I wanted to get my theory out in the open so I can take full credit for being the first one to discover the truth. However after deep thought I realize that each and every one of you deserves credit. If it was not for my friends on the boards and here at the Casebook I never would have had the basic knowledge to solve this complex case. I thank you all.

I owe a special thanks to Malt Joe who encouraged me in my early days abaord the Casebook. I remember the days when I would start a Tumblety thread and he would be the only one to reply back and he always had usefull information. If you are still around Joe, thanks.

Ben, here is to you buddy We have had our differences of opinion but you have always been graciuos. Our discussions opened my mind to new possibilities and enabled me to come to my final conclusion.

Glenn, Your comments kept me comming back to the boards. You were a great source of knowledge that I learnd alot from.

I wish to thank everyone here at the Casebook. I share the final solution with you all.

Your friend, Brad

[babybird67]

howdy Brazz



my little American friend...

i dont want to ridicule you...no new knowledge would ever be created if individuals were afraid to explore the avenues of their minds for fear of being ridiculed.

No matter how wacky any theory is perceived to be, no person deserves ridicule for being brave enough to go where their own thoughts take them into potential intellectual discovery.

People only grow where they feel safe and supported; ridicule achieves nothing positive. This is the same reason i frown very severely on self-appointed boards monitors setting themselves up as cyber-tutors, treating each posting here not as a privilege of exchange of ideas, but as pseudo-essays, which they must run through with a bloody pen and then spit back at the contributor as if it matters if an i isnt dotted or a t not crossed. Sadly i think disrespecting people in general is a Western thing...and sometimes i wonder if people forget their manners and forget that they are addressing people behind these little snippets of thoughts.

There endeth the lesson for today...go in peace to love and serve eachother!

Having said that, i dont agree with your theory.

Druitt to me seems a very sad man, with a family history of mental illness, which expressed itself to my mind in actions of self-harm, not harm of others. I think the pathology within a mind capable of self-harm is very different from the pathology of a mind capable of the brutal murder and mutilation of others. I could be wrong but that's how i see him. I see no convincing evidence of Druitt's involvement in the Ripper murders, either acting alone or with any accomplice.

I used to be more favourable to Tumblety...have you listened to the podcast on him by the way...it's very good. I think a lot of myths tend to get generated about all the suspects unfortunately. I was curious especially about Tumblety's alleged keeping of wombs in jars, which seemed odd to me, and would tie in with the organ harvesting element of your theory. I believe however that this is a myth. Someone more expert on Tumblety will hopefully come along and address this point in greater detail.

anyway, keep posting your thoughts Brazz...it's a big wide world and it's big enough for all of us!

tc

Kelly.... i mean, Jen x

[celee]

Hi my little British friend,

Thank you for your kind remarks. I look forward to sharing a couple of ready meals together and discussing the mistake that the British public made by not suporting DJ Talent.

My theory does not have much to do with organ harvesting. However organ harvesting is still a possible motive for certain suspects. A suspect like Chapman perhaps.

Douglaus Browne claims to have seen a document that Macnaughten had connected Jack the Ripper to the leader of an assasination plot against Mr. Balfour. If Macnaughten had connected the Ripper to such a plot or to a person who was believed to be the leader of such a plot then he must have connected Druitt to such a plot or person. Because, we know that Druitt was Macnaughten's prefrerd suspect.

Macnaughten claimed to have recieved private information that he was prepared to believe that Druitt was responcible for the Ripper murders. Macnaughten never worked on the Ripper case. I think his private information came from Monro. It then stands to reason that if Druitt was Macnaughten's preferds suspect then he must have been Monro's as well. Monro once told his son that the Ripper murders were a Political "Hot Potato".

Monro had a private secretary that was married to a cousin of Druitts so when Macnaughten claims that Druitt's own family believed he was the Ripper, he obviously got his information from Monro who recieved information from his private secretary.

Macnaughten confesses that he burned information that was important to the Ripper murders. This means that yes there was a coverup. Why burn the evidence? Who were they trying to protect, Druitt's family? If that were the case then Macnaughten never would have mentioned Druitt's name in connection to the Ripper murders. So why burn the evidence? What if the evidence that connected Druitt to the Ripper murders also revealed the plot against Mr. Balfour. The "political hot potato" Who knows who could have been involve been involved. High up officials. Newspaper men.

Jen, I am at an internet cafe and I have to go now will continue later.

Your friend, Brad

[celee]

Hi,

Cont.

Any assasination plot against Mr. Balfour would have been investigated by Littlechild. Littlechild names Tumblety as a likely suspect. Tumblety was a fenian with Irish sympathies and it would not be a stretch to believe that he was involved in a plot against Mr. Balfour.

Tumblety was a known charactor to the police and he came under suspicion for the Ripper murders when George Hutchinson saw him with Mary Kelly. It was Hutchinson's description that led the police to detain and question Tumblety. Tumblety was arrested on the 7th and he was released. It is possible that he was wareing the same cloths the night he was seen by Hutchinson. Tumblety admitts that he was picked up and questioned concerning the Kelly murder. He claims he was questioned because of the style hat he wore. obviously the police are going by someone's description, whose? Huutchinson or Sarah Lewis

Tumblety is questioned and then he held on a rather high bond if I remember right. Of course he makes his bond and flees the country. I feel he was held on such a high bond because they wanted to keep in jail. He is pursued by Inspector Andrews, why? Even more courious is the fact that no British papers pick up on the story of Tumblety. Even though papers in the US Canada, and from all over the world are printing Tumblety's story not one British paper is interested. Obviously the story was stoped by people in power. It is the only logical explanation, Why. Perhapes those in power would rather see Tumblety disappear.

Around the time Tumblety is stepping of a boat on to US soil. Druitt is stepping into the Themes with his pocket full of rocks. Serial Killers do not commit suicide but dups do. Druitt Killed himself after he realized that the main instigater behind the Ripper murders had left him. Druitt was a poor pathetic man. A suicide note is always left in such cases. I know that a partial note was found but we do not know for sure what the family discoverd. It would not surprise me if Druitt did not leave a full suicide note. Druitt's body washed up on New years eve 1888 but I would be willing to bet that his family knew that he had committed suicide well before the body was found.

Got to go again will continue later, Jen

Your friend, Brad

[celee]

Hi,

Cont.

Macnaughten connected the the Ripper, Druitt , with the leader of an assasination plot against Mr. Balfour, Tumblety , It is possible that Tumblety and Druitt met because they had a similiar political agenda or they could have met because they ran in a similiar social circle. I am not sure. However, if Druitt was a homosexual he certainly would have had the chance to meet up with Tumblety. The homosexual community would have been very secretive and close. It is not like they would have ran in different social circles. However, they just as easy could have met through a mutual friend or they could of had similiar political views.

Tumblety was the driving force behind the murders. He conviced Druitt to help him. Druitt committed suicide because he could not live with himself.

The motive is unclear but I feel Tumblety was a sick man who committed the murders do to a fear of women that led to frustration and manifested into great anger. He may have blamed women for his percieved mental illness, homosexuality. He may of had a hard time coming to terms with his own sexuallity so he took out his frustrations on the unfortunate women of whitechapel. I think the organs were taken because Tumblety wanted trophies

Feel free to yell at me now.



Your friend, Brad

[richardnunweek]

Hello Brad,
All good stuff, and two fascinating characters for your 'murderous duo', but surely just fiction writing..
Other pairs could include Fleming/Hutchinson,Barnett/Mjk[ the body was not hers] mayby Fleming and Mjk[ the latter escaping to somewhere, making arangements to meet up with the former, but he was so insane he forgot where].
All silly alternatives i know, but i dont go along with known suspects being involved as a duo, but i cannot dismiss a unknown duo.
Regards Richard.