A Posse Of Police And A Tall, Rather Repellant Looking Man

[Howard Brown]

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=298195#post298195

The link above will take the reader to a series of articles not found on this site but which are on The Forums.

The article which contains the threadstarter headline is in the following paper, a PDF of which I've provided in the Forums link.

North London News & Finsbury Gazette
November 17, 1888

In a Chicago Daily Inter Ocean article of November 20th....the headline, in mentioning the arrest of Tumblety, mentions his 'excessive exterior'....an article which I am sure most Tumbletonian researchers are been aware of. Not so sure about the Finsbury Gazette, though.

Could 'repellant looking' to our London reporter be the same as 'excessive exterior' was to the Chicago reporter ?

[Howard Brown]

A thousand pardons to the researcher who actually found the reference ( It wasn't me)....Anna Morris. My apologies for omitting that in the edit on the thread starter, Anna.

[jerryd]

Hi Howard,

The following clip is from, Evening News, 10 November 1888. It follows after this clip (Zat is Ze Zing) which correlates to the article Anna refers to on the forums. The "Zat is Ze Thing" man and then the arrest of the "tall" man taken to Commercial Street station.

"DAT IS ZE ZING"
"What do you do? What makes people pounce on you?" "Dat is ze zing," said the unlucky fellow spreading the palms of his hands and shrugging his shoulders. "Zat is what I like to know. Why do zey?" He had given a false name at his lodging house, but that, he tried to explain, was because "it eez not grand to leave in a lodging house."

Here it is:

A FUNNY INCIDENT
One unfortunate foreigner, whose physiognomy was certainly not prepossessing, was taken into Commercial street Police station, when it turned out that that was the third time he had been arrested on suspicion of being Jack the Ripper, in the course of these murders. What with his odd face, his deprecatory shrugs and posturings, and his broken English as he tried to answer the interrogatories put to him, his examination was irresistibly comic. "How d'ye manage to get into trouble like this, then?" demanded an officer.

I think this is the same man, and the part I've bolded seems to me to describe "repellant looking". Not sure if it is Tumblety? Was he arrested three times on suspicion of being JTR?

[Howard Brown]

JD:

Thanks for the reply.

I don't believe the two are the same. From my perspective, the 'posse' chaperoned the tall man but not the guy with the foreign accent.

In regard to someone being arrested/detained more than once, I've seen it on more than occasion mentioned in contemporary papers.

[jerryd]

JD:

Thanks for the reply.

I don't believe the two are the same. From my perspective, the 'posse' chaperoned the tall man but not the guy with the foreign accent.

In regard to someone being arrested/detained more than once, I've seen it on more than occasion mentioned in contemporary papers.

Hi Howard,

I wasn't saying the accent guy and tall man were the same. Both articles had the same flow to them meaning the accent guy was talked about and then right after mention of this other guy. Typical of reporters, as you know, they say two completely different things about the same guy. I am referring to tall man and odd face man being the same. The article on the forums said "repellant", the one I posted basically described a man that is repellant with an odd face and strange disposition.

I'm not saying I'm right, though.

[mklhawley]

Thank you, Howard, for posting this here! I tend to go right to your Tumblety threads, not the Kelly threads. And great find Anna. It being connected to the Kelly murder, here's another case of a tall, well dressed, man with blood splashes and stains:

"On Saturday afternoon a gentleman engaged in business in the vicinity of the murder gave what is the only approach to a possible clue that has yet been brought to light. He states that he was walking through Mitre square at about ten minutes past ten on Friday morning, when a tall, well dressed man, carrying a parcel under his arm, and rushing along in a very excited manner, ran plump into him. The man's face was covered with blood splashes, and his collar and shirt were also bloodstained. The gentleman did not at the time know anything of the murder.’ (Daily News (U.K.), 12 Nov, 1888)"

Sincerely,
Mike

[GUT]

Thanks Howard.

I am not convinced that Tumblety was Jack, I am however convinced (or near on) that at least some in authority thought he may have been.

And that makes him worth looking at.

But beside that even, I find him a compelling character study.

[mklhawley]

You sound like your twin GUT! Someday, you'll have to take the wife to Buffalo.

Mike

[jerryd]

My fault Howard, Carry on.

[GUT]

You sound like your twin GUT! Someday, you'll have to take the wife to Buffalo.

Mike

One day Mike, one day, then you'll have to join us.

[S.Brett]

"On Saturday afternoon a gentleman engaged in business in the vicinity of the murder gave what is the only approach to a possible clue that has yet been brought to light. He states that he was walking through Mitre square at about ten minutes past ten on Friday morning, when a tall, well dressed man, carrying a parcel under his arm, and rushing along in a very excited manner, ran plump into him. The man's face was covered with blood splashes, and his collar and shirt were also bloodstained. The gentleman did not at the time know anything of the murder.’ (Daily News (U.K.), 12 Nov, 1888)"

Hi Mike,

This is interesting!

The Daily Telegraph, Tuesday, 2 October, 1888:

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station by a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself. Upon him were found 1s 4½d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman." (1 October 1888)

Echo, London 1 October 1888:

A man was brought to the Leman-street Station last night, under circumstances which gave the police hopes at first that they had made an important capture. He was arrested, it seems, near Mitre-court, and could not give what the police deemed a satisfactory account of himself. He is a short, thickset man, of about thirty, close shaven. Upon him was found 1s. 4½d. in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woolen scarf of a violet colour. In reply to the Inspector he said that he had walked from Southampton, and belonged to the Royal Sussex Regiment (the very regiment, it will be remembered, whose cognisances was on the envelope found in the pocket of the Buck's-row victim). An examination of his boots was not, so the police at first said, at all confirmatory of this statement, and he was taken to the cells for inquiries to be made about him. No blood was found upon his clothes, so far as could be ascertained then. He protested his innocence, and the police now attach no importance to his arrest. He will, no doubt, be discharged. There was another arrest made during the night in the Commercial-road. Nothing, however, was discovered concerning him, and the man was discharged.

Imagine that this man was Jack the Ripper, he could have been arrested for the first time after the Double Event when he returned to the crime scene Mitre Square. And after the Kelly murder he was seen near Mitre Square for the second time? The second arrest mid-October 1888 in connection with the bloody shirts found in Batty Street? And for the third time, after the Kelly murder, "when it turned out that that it was the third time he had been arrested on suspicion of being "Jack the Ripper"?

Best regards, Karsten.

[mklhawley]

Hi Karsten,

Very interesting. I see one issue for these being the same person. In the Echo (Oct 1) it states the man is short, while the post-Kelly article has the man as tall. What do you think?

Sincerely,
Mike

[S.Brett]

Thanks Mike,

I must admit that I hadn't realized "tall" and "short", sorry. My focus was more on Mitre Square/ Mitre Street.

Now I think it wasn't the same man (found by a constable on 1 October) seen by the Mitre Square witness after the Kelly murder. But perhaps the tall man is the second man from the North London News & Finsbury Gazette article. It would make more sense...

But who knows, maybe the first man (Commercial Street Police Station) is one of these five men arrested after the Double Event :

“During last night and to-day no less than five men were arrested in the East End of London in connection with the murders. Three were at different times conveyed to Leman street Police Station... two men detained at Commercial street (Police Station)..."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/irish_times/18881002.html

The violet scarf man (Leman Street Police Station):

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/echo/18881001.html

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt881002.html

A man arrested a third time... terms such as "funny" and "comic"... I don´t know... perhaps the police could not believe that this man is responsible for the Ripper murders...

Karsten.