Thompson & Meynell may have Profited from the Ripper Murders.

[Richard Patterson]

Even if it is just likely his 1889 murder story was only influenced by these dreadful murders, it means Thompson was happy to make money from these murders, even before the 1st anniversary of Kelly’s death. His story was first distributed by a firm called Simpkin, Marshall and Co. They also dealt with other written works for Thompson’s editor and literary heir, Wilfrid Meynell. Out of all the hundreds of publishing houses in London, the first grab for money on the Ripper murders was by Simpkin, Marshall and Co. This was with the story ‘The Curse Upon Mitre Square: A.D. 1530 – 1888’. By a John Francis Brewer, concentrated on a specific Ripper murder too, that of Catherine Eddowes. It was published during the Ripper murders in October 1888.

Not all written adaptions of the Ripper murders had failed to maintain an audience. ‘The Lodger’, by Marie Belloc Lowndes was released by the Methuen publishing house which was founded a year after the Jack the Ripper murders. Out of the hundreds of publishing houses in London, they also released Thompson’s “Selected Poems” in 1908. It included a biographical note by Wilfrid Meynell. He would later become sometime manager of the firm. Unlike Simpkin, Marshall and Co, which required a carriage ride. Methuen Publishing had their offices at 36 Essex Street, London. On the same street, four doors down from his publishing house at number 44. Here was where Thompson had first let his first submission drop into the Meynell clan's mailbox for their literary magazine in February 1887.

[GUT]

Even if it is just likely his 1889 murder story was only influenced by these dreadful murders, it means Thompson was happy to make money from these murders, even before the 1st anniversary of Kelly’s death. His story was first distributed by a firm called Simpkin, Marshall and Co. They also dealt with other written works for Thompson’s editor and literary heir, Wilfrid Meynell. Out of all the hundreds of publishing houses in London, the first grab for money on the Ripper murders was by Simpkin, Marshall and Co. This was with the story ‘The Curse Upon Mitre Square: A.D. 1530 – 1888’. By a John Francis Brewer, concentrated on a specific Ripper murder too, that of Catherine Eddowes. It was published during the Ripper murders in October 1888.

Not all written adaptions of the Ripper murders had failed to maintain an audience. ‘The Lodger’, by Marie Belloc Lowndes was released by the Methuen publishing house which was founded a year after the Jack the Ripper murders. Out of the hundreds of publishing houses in London, they also released Thompson’s “Selected Poems” in 1908. It included a biographical note by Wilfrid Meynell. He would later become sometime manager of the firm. Unlike Simpkin, Marshall and Co, which required a carriage ride. Methuen Publishing had their offices at 36 Essex Street, London. On the same street, four doors down from his publishing house at number 44. Here was where Thompson had first let his first submission drop into the Meynell clan's mailbox for their literary magazine in February 1887.

So all the reporters profited from them, too, authors today profit from them, the author who writes a book about a crime right after it is committed profits.

Where does it take anything.

[Richard Patterson]

So all the reporters profited from them, too, authors today profit from them, the author who writes a book about a crime right after it is committed profits.

Where does it take anything.

Not all suspects listed here on Casebook profited.

[Mayerling]

Not all suspects listed here on Casebook profited.

On the surface you are right, but emotionally the Ripper got a happy thrill in doing what he/she did. And one can never tell, possibly buried in all of this is some scheme involving financial betterment. It's just that the idea of getting financial betterment from killing some "hand-to-mouth" unfortunate prostitutes just does not seem likely.

[Richard Patterson]

‘Did Francis Thompson’s editor Wilfrid Meynell have any interest in the Ripper murder

Did Francis Thompson’s editor Wilfrid Meynell have any interest in the Ripper murders? You bet he did! The Irish writer Katharine Tynan published her autobiography ‘Twenty-five Years: Reminiscences, “in 1913. The same year that Thompson’s “Complete Works” were published. The same year the first successful novelization of the Ripper murders, ‘The Lodger” was published by a firm Meynell worked for, two doors down from his office. In 1888, Tynan was living with the Meynell’s. Here Tynan records that upon hearing about the Ripper’s latest murder Meynell spoke about it to the last priest to hear Thompson confess.

“I paid my last visit to the Cardinal just before I left for home at the end of September. The visit was made in the early forenoon, and as we walked along from Victoria Station, the newsboys were shouting the latest Jack-the-Ripper murder. We were the first to carry the intelligence to the Cardinal, who received us in the little inner room off his big room, where he sat by the fire wearing his warm quilted overcoat. I suppose there was an autumnal nip in the air, though I did not feel it. He looked very old and frail as he sat there; and now and again, he hummed to himself in a way, which spoke painfully of old age. I dare say the business of the dock strike had wearied him, for he looked a very tired old saint that day. When Wilfred Meynell told him of the murder, he closed his eyes and the strangest look came into his face, " careful for a whole world of sin and pain.” … I was quite angry when Wilfred set out to demonstrate to me that the Jack-the-Ripper murders were the work of an Irishman.

Patterson.Paradox.2015

[John G]

Hello Richard,

Can you confirm that Thompson's only serious, long-term relationship was with a prostitute? You may have mentioned this but John Douglas' profile said that JtR was unlikely to be married and that his sexual relationships would be mostly with prostitutes. He also opined that in his younger years his pent-up destructive emotions would be expressed by lighting fires!

I really think that Thopson deserves a factual book as he is obviously such a strong candidate.

[Richard Patterson]

Hello Richard,

Can you confirm that Thompson's only serious, long-term relationship was with a prostitute? You may have mentioned this but John Douglas' profile said that JtR was unlikely to be married and that his sexual relationships would be mostly with prostitutes. He also opined that in his younger years his pent-up destructive emotions would be expressed by lighting fires!

I really think that Thopson deserves a factual book as he is obviously such a strong candidate.

Thank you for your support. John Walsh’s 1967 biography on Thompson and Bridget M Boardman’s biography on the same poet. Amongst other biographies confirm Thompson only had sexual relations with prostitutes.

Me from Bookgroup. 'To be honest when I looked at the profile I simply looked at the traits described that matched Thompson and ignored those that did not. I have seen respected authors use just 3 or 4 points that match an expert to build a case, write a book or present a documentary. I thought why not have a go at it too and using the profile by Douglas that you sent me, I found sixteen. I also saw traits that did not match Thompson; such as Douglas not seeing the Ripper having medical skill. I do not mean to say that Douglas’s profile matches Thompson on every count, only that for very many traits there is a match'

Also me from my group. 'So much about Francis Thompson seem to shadow these murders. He had trained for six years as a medical doctor and he lived in Whitechapel. In 1888 Thompson was suicidal and in possession of a dissecting scalpel. After drifting through London a homeless man for almost three years, in the first weeks of November 1888 Thompson found lodgings in Crispin Street, Spitalfields. Mary Kelly, the last victim of what were the already famous Jack the Ripper prostitute murders, was found in her bed. On the same night of her murder his bed was about 100 meters away in the Providence Row night shelter. Thompson's addiction to opium was constant for the past decade. During the murders which would become famous, suffering fits of delirium, he was seeking out a prostitute for whom he had a fancy. Upon meeting Thompson, she 'vanished' and he became famous. A year later he wrote a story where the main character kills the woman he fancies.'

[MrBarnett]

John Walsh touches on the possibility of Thompson having a sexual relationship with ONE prostitute - the girl who rescued him from the streets and with whom he lived for several months. This was not a one-off sordid financial transaction that might leave behind a resentment of prostitutes as a class. That aside, the only other suggestion of erotic attraction is to his sister's doll.

As for fire starting, the three incidents I can recall are, he swung a censer in church and spilled some embers, he left a smouldering pipe in his jacket pocket and it caught fire, and he was possibly living in the West India Dock Road area when a fire broke out in Ratcliffe/Shadwell. I have a feeling I may have missed one, but even so it's not exactly the record of a serial arsonist.

[Richard Patterson]

John Walsh touches on the possibility of Thompson having a sexual relationship with ONE prostitute - the girl who rescued him from the streets and with whom he lived for several months. This was not a one-off sordid financial transaction that might leave behind a resentment of prostitutes as a class. That aside, the only other suggestion of erotic attraction is to his sister's doll.

As for fire starting, the three incidents I can recall are, he swung a censer in church and spilled some embers, he left a smouldering pipe in his jacket pocket and it caught fire and, he was possibly living in the West India Dock Road area when a fire broke out in Ratcliffe/Shadwell.
I have a feeling I may have missed one, but even so it's not exactly the record of a serial arsonist.

We call the ripper a serial killer because he killed 5 women. I can think of two more fires, bringing to five the number of fires he started. He set fire to a church not once but twice in his youth. It was the 2nd attempt that got him into the local papers. Then their was the curtain he set fire to with a match before on the same night kicking a lamp over and setting fire to his lodging room, lets just call this the double event. He left his landlady to die in that one later jesting about it. When Thompson told Lewis Hind of the affair, Hinds said, ‘But Francis, did you not rouse your landlady?’ And Thompson’s reply, was typically his own, ‘My dear Hind, a house on fire is no place for tarrying.' If Thompson was not a serial arsonist then the Ripper was not a serial killer.

[MrBarnett]

Richard,

Are the dock fires included among your five?

Gary.

[John G]

We call the ripper a serial killer because he killed 5 women. I can think of two more fires, bringing to five the number of fires he started. He set fire to a church not once but twice in his youth. It was the 2nd attempt that got him into the local papers. Then their was the curtain he set fire to with a match before on the same night kicking a lamp over and setting fire to his lodging room, lets just call this the double event. He left his landlady to die in that one later jesting about it. When Thompson told Lewis Hind of the affair, Hinds said, ‘But Francis, did you not rouse your landlady?’ And Thompson’s reply, was typically his own, ‘My dear Hind, a house on fire is no place for tarrying.' If Thompson was not a serial arsonist then the Ripper was not a serial killer.

Hi Richard,

And surely his response to the landlady's death demonstrates that Thompson was totally lacking in empathy and quite possibly psychotic!

[Richard Patterson]

Richard,

Are the dock fires included among your five?

Gary.

Only in my horror novel.

[Richard Patterson]

The dock Fire.

n extract from my book about the dock fire. 'It was shortly before nine pm, on August 30 1888, immediately before the so-called first Ripper murder, that a fire broke out in the docklands. This fire would influence the early murder investigation. It caused police officers experienced with the Whitechapel area to be withdrawn from normal duties and officers from other districts to cover their patrols. The fire happened in the West India London Docks about a thirty-minute walk from the murder scene. How the warehouse fire on the night of the first Ripper murder began is unclear, perhaps it was arson. If the Ripper had planned a fire that would cause the most distraction, this would have been it. There was the real danger of an explosion. Beneath the warehouse were the vaults containing brandy, a drink made from 40% flammable alcohol. When the warehouses were first built in 1802, they were the largest brick buildings in the world. The vaults held around two hundred kegs that housed twenty seven thousand liters of brandy. The blaze could be seen for kilometers and by ten o'clock thousands of curious onlookers went to the scene. Police reinforcements from Whitechapel's H-Division district were called in to control the crowds. The fire was fierce and was not brought under control until well after midnight. '

[Harry D]

If Thompson had used arson as a diversion when committing the first murder, wouldn't he have resorted to this again when the police upped the number of bobbies on the beat?

[Richard Patterson]

If Thompson had used arson as a diversion when committing the first murder, wouldn't he have resorted to this again when the police upped the number of bobbies on the beat?

You make a good point. I can only say that by the time the police upped the number of bobbies on the beat there were new diversions in play including all these extra bobbies looking for the opposite of weak-seeming slim poetic Englishman, a strong armed butcher or sailor.