Why Thompson might be Jack the Ripper. In 1,200 words.

[Scott Nelson]

Unless I have missed something significant, yes this suspect appears quite feasible.

I entirely agree. Sorry about the earlier confusion with one of Martin Fido's minor suspects, Richard. Ernest Dowson (Mr. Moring) was also a drug-addicted poet who hung around the East End. I mistakenly equated him with Francis Thompson. Must be the affects of old age.

[GUT]

A better suspect than many I've seen, but I still need convincing.

[Roy Corduroy]

The deja vu's of November

[ATTACH]16616[/ATTACH]

Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex where he stayed in 1889. Francis Thompson's room was on the third floor, extreme left.

He was sent to stay at Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex in February 1889, by Wilfred Meynell, his new publisher, to get away from London and recuperate and to write. Because Meynell had 'rescued' Francis Thompson from his drug addiction (laudanum) by performing an intervention while at the same time beginning to publish Thompson's poetry and other literary works in his magazine Merry England.

Which raises a question: Was Francis Thompson in the hospital at the time of the Mary Kelly murder?

In my opinion, based on reading his biographies by Everard Meynell (Wilfred's son) and John Walsh, is that yes it is likely Francis Thompson was in hospital Nov 9, 1888.

The timeline is that Francis Thompson met Wilfred Meynell face to face in May 1888 and yes Meynell published him, and he and his wife Alice began to take Francis under their sponsorship. In October of 1888 he was seen by a doctor, who, shocked at Thompson's condition, had him put in a private hospital. This was cold turkey. John Walsh reckons it was a six week stay. "By December" he was out of the hospital, but may have had a relapse and so was sent to the peace and quiet of the country.

Yes, Francis Thompson certainly could have been in hospital Nov 9. But I get the idea there are no known records to verify that one way or the other.

Roy

[Wickerman]

Awkward.

[Ausgirl]

I entirely agree. Sorry about the earlier confusion with one of Martin Fido's minor suspects, Richard. Ernest Dowson (Mr. Moring) was also a drug-addicted poet who hung around the East End. I mistakenly equated him with Francis Thompson. Must be the affects of old age.

Has he been firmly identified as 'Moring'? I'd love to know more!

If Dowson knew MK, then might there be something more to this couplet than apparent romantic lament?

All day mine hunger for her heart became
Oblivion, until the evening came

[Ausgirl]

Off topic, sorry, but I have to share this Dowson poem which I've always liked.. I never knew anything much about his life, however, so this is quite exciting. Apparently he was a bit of a pedo? And I read this quite differently, now. There's death, and then there's all kinds of death.. I promise not to poem-spam hereafter, though. ETA: The metre in this is just wonderful.

Amor Profanus

Beyond the pale of memory,
In some mysterious dusky grove;
A place of shadows utterly,
Where never coos the turtle-dove,
A world forgotten of the sun:
I dreamed we met when day was done,
And marvelled at our ancient love.

Met there by chance, long kept apart,
We wandered through the darkling glades;
And that old language of the heart
We sought to speak: alas! poor shades!
Over our pallid lips had run
The waters of oblivion,
Which crown all loves of men or maids.

In vain we stammered: from afar
Our old desire shone cold and dead:
That time was distant as a star,
When eyes were bright and lips were red.
And still we went with downcast eye
And no delight in being nigh,
Poor shadows most uncomforted.

Ah, Lalage! while life is ours,
Hoard not thy beauty rose and white,
But pluck the pretty fleeing flowers
That deck our little path of light:
For all too soon we twain shall tread
The bitter pastures of the dead:
Estranged, sad spectres of the night.


Oh, ewww... and Ad Domnulam Suam is suddenly something quite nasty. This is what I get for being a lazy reader. And why, sometimes, it's better to know the art, and not the artist.

[Richard Patterson]

He was sent to stay at Our Lady of England Priory Storrington, Sussex in February 1889, by Wilfred Meynell, his new publisher, to get away from London and recuperate and to write. Because Meynell had 'rescued' Francis Thompson from his drug addiction (laudanum) by performing an intervention while at the same time beginning to publish Thompson's poetry and other literary works in his magazine Merry England.

Which raises a question: Was Francis Thompson in the hospital at the time of the Mary Kelly murder?

In my opinion, based on reading his biographies by Everard Meynell (Wilfred's son) and John Walsh, is that yes it is likely Francis Thompson was in hospital Nov 9, 1888.

The timeline is that Francis Thompson met Wilfred Meynell face to face in May 1888 and yes Meynell published him, and he and his wife Alice began to take Francis under their sponsorship. In October of 1888 he was seen by a doctor, who, shocked at Thompson's condition, had him put in a private hospital. This was cold turkey. John Walsh reckons it was a six week stay. "By December" he was out of the hospital, but may have had a relapse and so was sent to the peace and quiet of the country.

Yes, Francis Thompson certainly could have been in hospital Nov 9. But I get the idea there are no known records to verify that one way or the other.

Roy

It’s absolute pleasure to find out that you have been researching the inns and outs of Thompson regarding his circumstances and the Meynell’s telling of Thompson’s hospital admittance. Was Thompson in hospital at the time of the Mary Kelly Murder? The short answer is probably not.

In 1997, when I first deduced that Thompson might be the Ripper I did what anyone in my position would do. I explored the assertion, deciding to cease only when I found information that showed he could not have been the murderer. When I read that he had been placed in a private hospital, probably during the month of November, I stopped right there. I assumed, I think quite rightly that this gave him an alibi for the November 9th murder of Mary Kelly.

It was not until a few months later, at a party that someone asked me how my Ripper research was coming along that I took up the mantle once more. After telling them that Thompson couldn’t have been the Ripper because he was in hospital, my enquirer then asked, what hospital? I was stumped. Not knowing the answer, I returned to the library to try find out. Seventeen years later I still haven't been able to answer that question.

The only source for Thompson having been in hospital is Wilfrid Meynell. Who said his admittance was due to physical exhaustion. Thompson's stay was considered to have spanned a time of between six to twelve weeks. The dates of his admittance, or release, the name of the attending doctor and the name of the hospital or its location, remain unknown. Also unknown is whether patients were able to leave and return freely. The time of Thompson's hospitalisation was stated, in 1893, in the “Merry England”, to be two or three months making it sometime, in December, that Thompson was released. Thompson's hospitalisation was not mentioned in Everard Meynell's biography. A penciled note, by Wilfrid Meynell, in a copy, housed at Boston College, states, 'Six week's My Son!' There are also differing opinions on when Thompson was sent to Storrington Priory. Some biographies say as early as November, 1888, others as late as January 1889.

My hunch, and it is just a hunch, is that if Thompson had been admitted, then this “private hospital” was in fact the Meynell’s house, at 47 Palace Court, in Bayswater. In such a situation, Thompson could probably come and go as he pleased.

Having read widely on Thompson, it seems most likely that he arrived in Storrington in the New Year. Making his admission to a hospital happening in around the middle of November 1888. November 9th, the date of Kelly’s murder, would have fallen at least a week before. It could be postulated, if the dates between the murder of Kelly, and his hospitalization, were so near, that Thompson, overwhelmed by the horror of his deed, had a break down. It may have been this, as well any accompanying physical exhaustion that necessitated his admission to hospital care.

All in all, I don’t place much store in Thompson’s hospitalization as an alibi and therefore a raeason alone to discount Thompson.

[Richard Patterson]

Has he been firmly identified as 'Moring'? I'd love to know more!

If Dowson knew MK, then might there be something more to this couplet than apparent romantic lament?

All day mine hunger for her heart became
Oblivion, until the evening came

Here is another couplet from F.Thompson. It's from his 1891 poem, "Sister Songs" I would suggest its pretty much self explanatory.

Yet there is more, whereat non guesseth love!
Upon the ending of my deadly night.

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks Richard,

Yes I noticed the Meynell biography did not mention the hospitalization directly. I was taking my cue from Strange Harp, Strange Symphony, the Life of Francis Thompson by John Walsh, 1967, Hawthorn Pub NY and using the timeline he inferred on pages 77 to 79. The doctor reported 'Thompson was near total physical collapse, a condition which might be hastened if the opium were denied him, but "the risk was taken, and Francis was sent to a private hospital" ...

An intervention for his addiction sounds to me like a logical step in the normal course of events at this time.

Your scenario, Richard, is a significant change.

Roy

[Richard Patterson]

Some things that could make him the Ripper.

Here are some things that could make, the English poet Francs Thompson, Jack the Ripper and the killer of primarily 5 prostitutes in Whitechapel between August 31 and November 9, 1888.

An expert Pathologist, Dr. Joseph Rupp has said he could be Jack the Ripper. Biographers, such as John Walsh have suggested he could have been Jack the Ripper. An expert on mathematical coincidences, Ken Anderson, vouched that him being the Ripper is not just chance.

He was aged 27, which falls within the predominant age group of serial killers. He had a history of arson, he mutilated things as a child, he had a violent childhood, he was a drifter, he had above average intelligence, he was considered alluring to woman, and he was a drug user. All of which are predominant traits of serial killers.

He was a trained surgeon. He had a motive to kill Prostitutes. His only story has a writer was about killing a woman with a knife and a hatred of women. His essays and letters describe his hatred of prostitutes. His only submitted play described prostitutes as worse than murderers and a hatred of prostitute. He wrote poems describing women having their stomach ripped open with knife and a violent hatred of women. Researchers say he living in Whitechapel when the murders happened. After the final murder he was placed in a secluded priory giving a reason to stop. He was no alibi for any of the murders. He was carrying a type of knife. All these traits are looked for in the Ripper.

He fits the profile given by Sir Robert Anderson who investigated the case. He was trained in the same dissection methods as the victim’s wound exhibited as described by Dr. Thomas Bond, who performed the autopsy of the 5th victim. He fits the profile of the murder as given by Dr. Thomas Bond. He fits the profile of the Ripper as given by Dr George Phillips who assisted performed autopsies on 4 of the victims.

He fits the description of Ripper, which said to be given by an eyewitness police officer, Sergeant Stephen White. He fits the eyewitness description of the Ripper by George Hutchinson. He fits the eyewitness description of possibly of the Ripper by Israel Schwartz.

[Pcdunn]

No alibi for any of the murders? But earlier in this thread is a discussion that Thompson may have been hospitalized on Nov. 9th... ?

[Richard Patterson]

No alibi for any of the murders? But earlier in this thread is a discussion that Thompson may have been hospitalized on Nov. 9th... ?

From what I can gather he was taken off the streets in November and admitted for six weeks in a private hospital and then was moved a secluded priory by the January 1889. This is if there was any hospital. No biographer or or anyone else has given the name of the hospital, his date of entry, or his doctor.

[Ausgirl]

He had a history of arson

- did he ever actually burn anything? As opposed to threatening to once or twice while throwing a tantrum?

An expert on mathematical coincidences, Ken Anderson, vouched that him being the Ripper is not just chance

- based on flawed data

All of which are predominant traits of serial killers.

..on television.

Researchers say he living in Whitechapel when the murders happened

- do you mean, yourself?

[Richard Patterson]

His habit of setting fire to buildings was not a once off event. The first occasions are recorded in many biographies on Thompson. One 1988 biography, ‘Between Heaven and Charing Cross’ by Bridget M Boardman will tell you on page 20 that Thompson twice set a church on fire. The first time, as an altar boy, he did so by stealing the candle lighters job and starting a blaze at the church altar. Yet again, because of an argument on what robes he wanted to wear, he spun the incense-burning thurible over his head, round and round with such force that he again set the church alight. He got into the local newspaper for that arson attack describing how he sent the crowd into a ‘general panic’

As to Ken Anderson’s data, his long letter of reply discussed a number of so called coincidences involving Thompson and dismissed then as more than chance. At the time of writing he was considered the authority on the subject with appearances on television and radio for his expert opinion.

These traits on serial killers were gathered from a number of books from world authorities that have worked with the CID, and the FBI. Such information as I have given it can be found in Elliot Leyton’s 1986 book 'Compulsive Killers'. The Story of Modern Multiple Murder'. That a significant number of serial killers exhibit these traits can be found in documentation on the FBI’s website.

Another research that says he was living in Whitechapel is the eminent historian John Evangelist Walsh. He details on page 50 of his 1967 biography on Thompson, ‘Strange Harp Strange Symphony. The Life of Francis Thompson’ that Thompson was staying at the Providence Row night refuge. This was at 50 Crispin Street, opposite the entrance to Dorset Street. It was less than 100 meters from where Mary Kelly was murdered.

[Ausgirl]

He details on page 50 of his 1967 biography on Thompson, ‘Strange Harp Strange Symphony. The Life of Francis Thompson’ that Thompson was staying at the Providence Row night refuge.

Yup. But when, exactly?

Also, his behaviour re fire isn't what I'd call the same "fire setting" behaviour the BSU refers to. Though I'd call it clearly troubled.

Lots of people fit the "serial killer" profile too, and have never killed anyone.

And, more to the point, there are *scores* of serial killers who don't fit ANY of these supposedly 'predominant' traits:

He was aged 27, which falls within the predominant age group of serial killers. He had a history of arson, he mutilated things as a child, he had a violent childhood, he was a drifter, he had above average intelligence, he was considered alluring to woman, and he was a drug user. All of which are predominant traits of serial killers.

Your suspect could be 50-yo married man who owns his home and has an IQ of 85 and there'd be a list pf "predominant traits" that'd cover him too. Because there's plenty of precedent for that.

It's blanket statements and assumptions like this that make it hard for me to take portions of your argument seriously.

But you've been arguing it a long time, so I suppose nothing I have to say matters.