Francis Thompson. The Perfect Suspect.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s been a while since I read Patterson’s book but I also read ‘Strange Harp, Strange Symphony: The Life of Francis Thompson by John Walsh on the recommendation of Gary Barnett, which is an excellent biography.

From what I can recall Thompson simply admitted to using a razor for shaving when he was wandering around and this is the only evidence of any ‘weapon.’ He was also in search of a woman that he had feelings for who I believe was a prostitute but she wasn’t an East End prostitute and I believe that he only ever talked/wrote of her in glowing terms. I seem to remember that he did spend some time in the East End though and near to Miller’s Court but I don’t think that it could be tied down to the time of the murders (I’ll stand correcting on this of course because I’m just working from memory ad I’m far from sure that his presence in the East End was proven). He did study medicine for a time but without much enthusiasm but of course he would have picked up medical/anatomical knowledge (if the ripper did have such knowledge)

Thompson reminds me in some ways of Van Gogh. A troubled man whose life was blighted by mental issues whether caused by or exacerbated by an addiction to opium. He appears to have been someone who was well liked by many. Personally I don’t see him as the ripper by any stretch but he had an interesting life and I don’t see that we have any reason for dismissing him.

[MrBarnett]

There is no evidence of when Thompson shaved with a dissecting scalpel. It could have been when he was studying medicine, years before the Whitechapel Murders. Was a dissecting scalpel the sort of weapon that was used on the victims? I would imagine every adult in the country had access to a knife of some kind.

The only evidence of Thompson being in Spitalfields is his description of being outside the Providence Row refuge. That first appeared in a publication called Merry England. Patterson obtained it second hand from Walsh and hasn’t read the full article. There is no way of knowing when the incident occurred or whether Thompson actually stayed at the refuge.

There is nothing to suggest that Thompson’s split from his prostitute companion was in any way acrimonious, and as she had been based in Chelsea the idea that as a result of the split a rage-fuelled Thompson went to the East End looking for her and began killing other prostitutes as an act of revenge is highly fanciful.

As for ability, he was medically trained, so if the Whitechapel Murderer displayed medical training, then Thompson has the edge over suspects who weren’t.

Thompson is a weak suspect whose candidacy Richard Patterson has spun into something interesting.

[FISHY1118]

It's funny, Fishy!

At the risk of sounding contrary, I recently read Patterson's Thompson book and was pretty unimpressed with the case he made.

I wouldn't relegate Thompson to the "Ridiculous Suspect" category, but he would certainly be in my "I'll eat my hat if it was him" tier!

Off the top of my head, I would personally go something like:

Ability 2.50 (He was young enough, but I just don't see a fey, sickly poet having the oomph)

Opportunity 8.50 (yeah, he was in the right place at the right time which scores high)

Motive 1.50 (I think Patterson totally overegged his "obsession" with tracking down the prostitute lover who abandoned him and his misogyny).

Weapon 5.00 (He had previously had access to surgical knives. The shaving with a scalpel even if true doesn't really ring any alarm bells for me. All men had knives and razors).

My (completely unscientific and barely thought through total ) 17.5 out of 40.

I actually find it quite interesting how we all digest the same material, and then interpret it completely differently!

Thanks Diddles .

Yes i to find your last point interesting ,seems with jtr its a common occurrance we all share is it not ?


Just a couple of things tho ,by ability i mean and im sure the poster of topic was saying was his ability to carry out the crimes i.e his knowledge of the human anatomy and how to remove organs in a perticular way .

And i guess motive, im leaning towards the poem he wrote that has a kinda weird ''i hate prozzies'' feel about it if you catch my drift .

So perhaps you might have him a bit low on those two ,but hey like you said its all in the way we digest it huh .

[Herlock Sholmes]

There is no evidence of when Thompson shaved with a dissecting scalpel. It could have been when he was studying medicine, years before the Whitechapel Murders. Was a dissecting scalpel the sort of weapon that was used on the victims? I would imagine every adult in the country had access to a knife of some kind.

The only evidence of Thompson being in Spitalfields is his description of being outside the Providence Row refuge. That first appeared in a publication called Merry England. Patterson obtained it second hand from Walsh and hasn’t read the full article. There is no way of knowing when the incident occurred or whether Thompson actually stayed at the refuge.

There is nothing to suggest that Thompson’s split from his prostitute companion was in any way acrimonious, and as she had been based in Chelsea the idea that as a result of the split a rage-fuelled Thompson went to the East End looking for her and began killing other prostitutes as an act of revenge is highly fanciful.

As for ability, he was medically trained, so if the Whitechapel Murderer displayed medical training, then Thompson has the edge over suspects who weren’t.

Thompson is a weak suspect whose candidacy Richard Patterson has spun into something interesting.

Cheers Gary, I couldn’t recall the exact details.

[FISHY1118]

i fishy. agree. i think pattenson over eggs the pudding a but, but ive always found him an intriguing suspect, especially if he was actually living a stones throw away from kelly.

He certainly was close wasnt he .

[MrBarnett]

There is no hard evidence that Thompson was in the East End at the time of the murders.

He once had a knife.

He wrote some strange poems, although none of them ever mention prostitutes.

He had some medical training, but it seems he spent a lot of his time as a student going to the theatre and other entertainments.

[MrBarnett]

He certainly was close wasnt he .

Where? When?

Have you seen evidence that even Richard Patterson hasn’t seen?

[MrBarnett]

Where? When?

Have you seen evidence that even Richard Patterson hasn’t seen?

At one stage Patterson was claiming that Thompson could look through the window of the room he was staying in at the Night Refuge and see the entrance to Miller’s Court. He dropped that claim when it was pointed out to him that only the windows in the women’s section of the refuge looked down Dorset Street. The men’s section was at the rear of the building.

[FISHY1118]

At one stage Patterson was claiming that Thompson could look through the window of the room he was staying in at the Night Refuge and see the entrance to Miller’s Court. He dropped that claim when it was pointed out to him that only the windows in the women’s section of the refuge looked down Dorset Street. The men’s section was at the rear of the building.

So was he in the mens section ?

[MrBarnett]

Patterson says:

Opportunity:
Thompson was able to walk the streets at all hours. Being homeless for 3 years in the East End, he was part of the landscape and could come and go without rousing suspicion.


Walsh, on the other hand, says:

How long a period of such doss-house misery and actual street Thomson endured remains uncertain - it was at least six months, perhaps as much as eight or nine - but the worst of it came to and end when he was rescued by from some particularly dire situation by one of the army of harlots that infested London’s West End. With this nameless prostitute he eventually entered a more or less steady relationship.

Thompson supposedly met the prostitute in 1887, and his notes about the doss-house phase mention places in west London.

‘3 years in the East End’ is a complete fiction.

[Pcdunn]

Not poor Francis Thompson, again! I argued for his innocence back a few years ago, and I'm sorry to see he is still being discussed as a "suspect."
He's one of the most renowned British Catholic poets of his time. He wrote the "Hound of Heaven"!
Circumstantial "evidence" based on misunderstood writings and the fact that he was sometimes a poverty-stricken street person, mixed with a likely myth about his prostitute lover-- do not a theory make.

[MrBarnett]

So was he in the mens section ?

We have no idea. As I say, he wrote an article describing men queuing to get into the refuge, but it’s not clear in that whether he ever got in himself. At least not in the extract quoted by Walsh, which is what Richard Patterson bases his claim on.

It’s also not clear when he attempted to get into the refuge, it could have been in 1887.

[FISHY1118]

There is no hard evidence that Thompson was in the East End at the time of the murders.

He once had a knife.

He wrote some strange poems, although none of them ever mention prostitutes.

He had some medical training, but it seems he spent a lot of his time as a student going to the theatre and other entertainments.

Is there any hard evidence any suspect was in the east end at the time of the murders ?,

He once had a knife , which he may used to kill who knows ?

[MrBarnett]

Is there any hard evidence any suspect was in the east end at the time of the murders ?,

He once had a knife , which he may used to kill who knows ?

The answer to your first question is obviously yes. Many of the suspects that have been put forward were East End residents.

Every adult in the country had access to a knife.

Patterson takes a throwaway comment by Thompson that he had once shaved with a scalpel as evidence that he carried one around with him in the East End in 1888.

[FISHY1118]

The answer to your first question is obviously yes. Many of the suspects that have been put forward were East End residents.

Every adult in the country had access to a knife.

Patterson takes a throwaway comment by Thompson that he had once shaved with a scalpel as evidence that he carried one around with him in the East End in 1888.

Yet we dont know that he in fact didnt carry one around with him , just sayin its possible .


So its also possible he could have being staying at the refuse , which would technically make him a resident ?

We just dont know he/they [other suspects] were there at the time of the murders , have i got that bit right ?