The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

[FISHY1118]

That’s just impossible Fishy. You are basically suggesting that Dr Bond was a complete idiot who was clueless as to what the police required of him. Clearly as the police wanted to know if the killer had medical/anatomical knowledge Bond wouldn’t have mentioned an aspect of the murder where he didn’t show such skill/knowledge but he fail to mention the part where he did. I can’t to see why anyone would think differently. Bond was talking about medical/anatomical skill as a whole; he can’t have done otherwise. I realise that this doesn’t support the idea of a ‘medical knowledge Jack’ but we shouldn’t allow this to suggest the impossible.

Im not suggesting that about Dr Bond at all ,why would you even think that ? . Im merely pointing out a fact, that in his post mortem report Bond decribes the removal of kelly heart in such a way that would require medical knowledge . One can only speculate as to why he may or may not have communicated that to the police at the time. At a guess, if i had to id say, maybe to protect his medical profession colleagues which George has already mentioned as a possiblity , who knows .


I totally agree with George on this point

''So there are mutilations that could have been inflicted by someone with no medical skill or knowledge. Or they could have been inflicted by a butcher, slaughter man or hunter with a sweeping knife technique,'' but this doesn't explain the delicate extraction of Eddowes uterus from behind the bladder or the removal of Kelly's heart from the pericardium. These are medical procedures and therein lies the dilemma for me.''

[FISHY1118]

How do you know? We certainly don't have a detailed history of Bury's employment whose to say he wasn't at one time a butcher?

I know one is a ''Fact'' the other is speculation , when you find that evidence of bury the butcher, you be sure to let us know .

[FISHY1118]

This isn’t Geddy’s information Fishy. He had cut and pasted it from a source online. It clearly comes from Richard Patterson who wrote a book suggestion Thompson’s as the ripper.

→ He wrote essays at the time describing prostitutes as “putrid ulcers,” “blasphemies,” and called for them to be drowned in the Thames.

None of his poems mention prostitutes as far as I can recall. Maybe we can get someone to check it out seeing how you cant be sure .


→ He delighted in reading and writing about the killing of women with blades — even his own play had this as its central scene.

Shaun Hutson, Stephen King, Clive Barker….i could produce a huge list….were these all potential serial killers? No, but then again theses two arnt JtR suspects are they ?


He had a documented history of psychotic violence toward women — including written hatred of prostitutes and dark fantasies of killing them.

He had absolutely no history of violence against women. Again , lets see if we can get some verification on this instead of just fogging it off as untrue. Ill p.m Geddy for some clarification on the above.

[FISHY1118]

Anyone with a knife and a knowledge of the location of the heart could cut it out.

George explaination disagrees with you . Feel free to take it up further with him .

[FISHY1118]

So, there were two different people involved in the Kelly murder, in your opinion. Firstly you have Bond saying that the mutilations in each case were performed by someone with no scientific or anatomical knowledge, not even that of a slaughterer, then the highly skilled surgeon with the totally up to date techniques arrived, and expertly removed the heart.

How do you know the killer didnt remove the organs with precision first , then mutilate kellys body afterwards with all the time he had undisturbed ?

[Doctored Whatsit]

How do you know the killer didnt remove the organs with precision first , then mutilate kellys body afterwards with all the time he had undisturbed ?

We were quoting Bond, who saw "no evidence of scientific or anatomical knowledge, not even that of a slaughterer" and this was "in each case". It doesn't matter what order he performed his evil work, Bond saw no evidence of the skills you insist he had. Presumably the excisions were performed roughly and not surgically, I don't know, but his opinion, which is all that is being discussed, was no evidence of expertise. Personally, I don't have a high opinion of Bond, I have a higher opinion of Phillips and Brown, but the point being claimed was that he clearly stated he saw no evidence of expertise. It would have been ridiculous for him to say that if he saw even a hint of surgical know-how in the excisions.

[GBinOz]

Anyone with a knife and a knowledge of the location of the heart could cut it out.

Anyone with a canvas and a set of brushes could have painted the Mona Lisa. I don't think so.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Im not suggesting that about Dr Bond at all ,why would you even think that ? . Im merely pointing out a fact, that in his post mortem report Bond decribes the removal of kelly heart in such a way that would require medical knowledge . One can only speculate as to why he may or may not have communicated that to the police at the time. At a guess, if i had to id say, maybe to protect his medical profession colleagues which George has already mentioned as a possiblity , who knows .


[/B]

No he didn’t. He said quite clearly that: “ In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”

That is what Bond thought. At no time ever did he say “the heart was removed using a procedure that only a medical expert would have been able to perform.” Or anything remotely like it.

Its as simple as that. So, of Brown, Sequiera, Bond and Phillips only Phillips saw evidence of medical knowledge. That’s one in four Fishy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Anyone with a canvas and a set of brushes could have painted the Mona Lisa. I don't think so.

The heart is a piece of meat George. If someone knew where it was and had a sharp knife where is the problem?

[Herlock Sholmes]

He had a documented history of psychotic violence toward women — including written hatred of prostitutes and dark fantasies of killing them.

He had absolutely no history of violence against women. Again , lets see if we can get some verification on this instead of just fogging it off as untrue. Ill p.m Geddy for some clarification on the above.

This raises a very obvious question Fishy. Why did you just accept it as being true without checking the facts first?

I, on the other hand, have just begun re-reading Strange Harp, Strange Symphony. It’s biography of Thompson by John Walsh and I’m reading it again because I’d like to refresh my memory of what an unbiased writer wrote about him.

[GBinOz]

The heart is a piece of meat George. If someone knew where it was and had a sharp knife where is the problem?

The pericardium is an integral part of the heart. It was left in place. The problem is that the heart was not extracted in whole. The heart proper was incised from the enclosing sheath known as the pericardium with a medical procedure taught by Virchow. The heart proper was medically incised from the pericardium, not just hacked out of the thorax. If you cannot understand this difference, how would the likes of Bury known the difference.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The pericardium is an integral part of the heart. It was left in place. The problem is that the heart was not extracted in whole. The heart proper was incised from the enclosing sheath known as the pericardium with a medical procedure taught by Virchow. The heart proper was medically incised from the pericardium, not just hacked out of the thorax. If you cannot understand this difference, how would the likes of Bury known the difference.

Why do you dismiss that the killer just used the method that he felt was best at the time George? Why did Dr Bond not say “wow, this guy really had knowledge of surgical procedures?”

[GBinOz]

No he didn’t. He said quite clearly that: “ In my opinion he does not even possess the technical knowledge of a butcher or horse slaughterer or any person accustomed to cut up dead animals.”

That is what Bond thought. At no time ever did he say “the heart was removed using a procedure that only a medical expert would have been able to perform.” Or anything remotely like it.

Its as simple as that. So, of Brown, Sequiera, Bond and Phillips only Phillips saw evidence of medical knowledge. That’s one in four Fishy.

Not quite one in four. Brown also saw medical knowledge. According to Prosector, Sequiera had a minimum qualification and was unlikely to have ever had dissection experience more than the bare minimum to gain his low level qualification. The opinions of Phillips and Brown are the only historical opinions worth consideration, and they entertained medical knowledge.

[GBinOz]

Why do you dismiss that the killer just used the method that he felt was best at the time George?

The method considered to be the best at the time was to access the heart via a rib spreading in the thorax. I don't dismiss that because it wasn't what was described in the autopsy. The heart was accessed via the abdominal cavity. That wasn't the method of the time and the procedure was so little known that Bond may not have known what he was looking at.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The method considered to be the best at the time was to access the heart via a rib spreading in the thorax. I don't dismiss that because it wasn't what was described in the autopsy. The heart was accessed via the abdominal cavity. That wasn't the method of the time and the procedure was so little known that Bond may not have known what he was looking at.

So someone with medical was much likelier to have used a different method?