The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

[Mike J. G.]

Fair points I just don't see Chapman changing from what Jack did with mutilation etc to be a calculating poisoner. I think Bury a much stronger suspect than Chapman. For various reasons not least the fact he performed post mortem mutilation on his wife.

Yeah I don't really disagree too much, tbh. I doubt Chapman was the man. I think it was a lot easier before the boom in behavioural science research to accept that a poisoner could well be a mutilator as well, and I definitely don't think Abberline was naive in thinking it could have been Chapman, he was wrong for the right reasons, IMO, if that makes sense.

[John Wheat]

Yeah I don't really disagree too much, tbh. I doubt Chapman was the man. I think it was a lot easier before the boom in behavioural science research to accept that a poisoner could well be a mutilator as well, and I definitely don't think Abberline was naive in thinking it could have been Chapman, he was wrong for the right reasons, IMO, if that makes sense.

I'd agree with that Mike. I don't think Chapman was the Ripper but I wouldn't go as far as to say he definitely wasn't. I make no secret in my belief that Bury was the Ripper. However if it was proved he wasn't I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[Paddy Goose]

I know the person who posted this on a Facebook group has written a book on Francis Thompson and I'm not sure if he frequents here...

Yes that person posted here before. And he started several threads. About his suspect.

This thread has become instead a gathering place on the top line of Casebook Forums for each poster to mention their favorite suspect. And I think we know who the "usual suspects" who do that sort of posting are.

It's like Pavlov's Dogs.

[Doctored Whatsit]

I am having major problems taking this thread seriously, sorry!

I realise that research into Thompson's life produces slightly different information, and slightly different dates according to the source, but this is the information I had, and why I totally rejected him as a potentially serious suspect -

As to the alleged medical expertise frequently quoted here, my version is that he enrolled at St Bartholomew's Hospital, but was there only a few months, attended a handful of lectures, and never progressed beyond the introductory phase, and left because of poor health and opium addiction.

He found one or two low paid clerical jobs, and wrote some of his early poetry, but his poor health and addiction resulted in him becoming a vagrant for about three years. His ability as a poet was recognised by Wilfred Meynell, who "rescued" him and chose to rehabilitate him. Thompson was said to be so weak after three years of vagrancy, ill health and his addiction, that it was thought that he might die, but a few weeks in hospital organised by Meynell saved him, although his poor health remained until he died aged only 48. With regard to him allegedly living right on the doorstep of the murders, Meynell found him a simple flat in St Giles-in-the-Wood, Oxfordshire, where he lived, close to Meynell himself. His health was said to be so poor that he needed regular medical attention which Meynell arranged. The Times reported him as still being at St Giles in early 1889.

Therefore, I don't think that he had any medical expertise, I don't believe he was in London during the Autumn of 1888, and I don't believe he was anywhere near fit enough to be JtR.

I don't doubt that someone will claim that there is a more reliable source that said that his medical training was very advanced, that his health was really good, and that he was living in the East End in the Autumn of 1888, but I don't believe it.

[Lewis C]

I am having major problems taking this thread seriously, sorry!

I realise that research into Thompson's life produces slightly different information, and slightly different dates according to the source, but this is the information I had, and why I totally rejected him as a potentially serious suspect -

As to the alleged medical expertise frequently quoted here, my version is that he enrolled at St Bartholomew's Hospital, but was there only a few months, attended a handful of lectures, and never progressed beyond the introductory phase, and left because of poor health and opium addiction.

He found one or two low paid clerical jobs, and wrote some of his early poetry, but his poor health and addiction resulted in him becoming a vagrant for about three years. His ability as a poet was recognised by Wilfred Meynell, who "rescued" him and chose to rehabilitate him. Thompson was said to be so weak after three years of vagrancy, ill health and his addiction, that it was thought that he might die, but a few weeks in hospital organised by Meynell saved him, although his poor health remained until he died aged only 48. With regard to him allegedly living right on the doorstep of the murders, Meynell found him a simple flat in St Giles-in-the-Wood, Oxfordshire, where he lived, close to Meynell himself. His health was said to be so poor that he needed regular medical attention which Meynell arranged. The Times reported him as still being at St Giles in early 1889.

Therefore, I don't think that he had any medical expertise, I don't believe he was in London during the Autumn of 1888, and I don't believe he was anywhere near fit enough to be JtR.

I don't doubt that someone will claim that there is a more reliable source that said that his medical training was very advanced, that his health was really good, and that he was living in the East End in the Autumn of 1888, but I don't believe it.

Hi DW,

Maybe the source that you're using is better than the wiki article on Thompson, but here's the part of that article that's most relevant here:

"Thompson studied medicine for nearly eight years at Owens College, now the University of Manchester. While excelling in essay writing, he took no interest in his medical studies; he had a passion for poetry and for watching cricket matches.^[2] He never practised as a doctor, and tried to enlist as a soldier but was rejected for his slightness of stature. Then in 1885 he fled, penniless, to London, where he tried to make a living as a writer, in the meantime taking odd jobs – working for a bootmaker (John McMaster of Panton Street) and booksellers, and selling matches.^[3] During this time, he became addicted to opium, which he had first taken as medicine for ill health, having experienced a nervous breakdown while still in Manchester. He lived on the streets of Charing Cross and slept by the River Thames, with the homeless and other addicts."

There's no mention of St Bartholomew's Hospital in the article. It says that he studied medicine for nearly 8 years though he wasn't interested in it. Earlier it had said that he studied medicine at the behest of his father. It's saying that he did live in London at the time of the murders, though not as close to where the murders occurred as Patterson is claiming. I do think that the question of whether he was physically strong enough to have committed the Whitechapel murders is a valid one.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi DW,

Maybe the source that you're using is better than the wiki article on Thompson, but here's the part of that article that's most relevant here:

"Thompson studied medicine for nearly eight years at Owens College, now the University of Manchester. While excelling in essay writing, he took no interest in his medical studies; he had a passion for poetry and for watching cricket matches.^[2] He never practised as a doctor, and tried to enlist as a soldier but was rejected for his slightness of stature. Then in 1885 he fled, penniless, to London, where he tried to make a living as a writer, in the meantime taking odd jobs – working for a bootmaker (John McMaster of Panton Street) and booksellers, and selling matches.^[3] During this time, he became addicted to opium, which he had first taken as medicine for ill health, having experienced a nervous breakdown while still in Manchester. He lived on the streets of Charing Cross and slept by the River Thames, with the homeless and other addicts."

There's no mention of St Bartholomew's Hospital in the article. It says that he studied medicine for nearly 8 years though he wasn't interested in it. Earlier it had said that he studied medicine at the behest of his father. It's saying that he did live in London at the time of the murders, though not as close to where the murders occurred as Patterson is claiming. I do think that the question of whether he was physically strong enough to have committed the Whitechapel murders is a valid one.

Yes, it is quite astonishing that every account of his life is different, either in facts or dates or both. The claim that Thompson was actually in Oxfordshire in 1888 and 1889, for instance seems to have been established by correspondence from Meynell, and an article in The Times, so I believe it. His spell as a vagrant is sometimes said to be 1882 or 1883 to 1885 or 1886, and sometimes as late as 1885 to 1888. The latest date that I have for him being taken in by Meynell is spring of 1888, but all dates I have seen remove him from the East End for that late summer and autumn.

Everything that I consider reliable puts him in very poor health by 1888, including the suggestion that this may have been when he was hospitalised. Also I am as sure as I can reasonably be that he was not in London in the autumn of 1888. His medical studies are a problem, because I have come across several different versions of what he did, but my information about Owens College is that Thompson was there to study classics and literature, and that he left after a few terms because of family financial pressures! Every account is different, so it is a real problem.

[Lewis C]

Yes, it is quite astonishing that every account of his life is different, either in facts or dates or both. The claim that Thompson was actually in Oxfordshire in 1888 and 1889, for instance seems to have been established by correspondence from Meynell, and an article in The Times, so I believe it. His spell as a vagrant is sometimes said to be 1882 or 1883 to 1885 or 1886, and sometimes as late as 1885 to 1888. The latest date that I have for him being taken in by Meynell is spring of 1888, but all dates I have seen remove him from the East End for that late summer and autumn.

Everything that I consider reliable puts him in very poor health by 1888, including the suggestion that this may have been when he was hospitalised. Also I am as sure as I can reasonably be that he was not in London in the autumn of 1888. His medical studies are a problem, because I have come across several different versions of what he did, but my information about Owens College is that Thompson was there to study classics and literature, and that he left after a few terms because of family financial pressures! Every account is different, so it is a real problem.

Good points, and checking the citations in the wiki article, the sources for footnotes 2 and 3 are from 1923 and 1912 respectively. Rather dated sources, and there's a good chance that more recent research has given us more accurate information.

[Doctored Whatsit]

His medical studies are a problem, because I have come across several different versions of what he did, but my information about Owens College is that Thompson was there to study classics and literature, and that he left after a few terms because of family financial pressures! Every account is different, so it is a real problem.

I should have explained that the family's financial pressures were caused by the death of Thompson's father when Francis was still in his teens, so Francis T had to abandon his studies and find work. I believe he was the eldest child. I don't see any way he could have stayed at Owens College for almost eight years in these circumstances.

[GBinOz]

I should have explained that the family's financial pressures were caused by the death of Thompson's father when Francis was still in his teens, so Francis T had to abandon his studies and find work. I believe he was the eldest child. I don't see any way he could have stayed at Owens College for almost eight years in these circumstances.

Hi Doc,

My impression is different. According to my research Charles Thompson died in 1896 when Francis was 37 years old. I have read that Charles complained of the expense of paying for his son's excessive (in his opinion) requirement for cadavers to dissect towards his six year study at Owens College. My understanding is that Francis enjoyed the dissections, but had no interest in the exams that would lead to a qualification. YMMV.

Cheers, George

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi Doc,

My impression is different. According to my research Charles Thompson died in 1896 when Francis was 37 years old. I have read that Charles complained of the expense of paying for his son's excessive (in his opinion) requirement for cadavers to dissect towards his six year study at Owens College. My understanding is that Francis enjoyed the dissections, but had no interest in the exams that would lead to a qualification. YMMV.

Cheers, George

Thank you George, and apologies. It seems that my original sources for Thompson's early life were incorrect as they apparently wrongly identified his father. Charles was, it seems, a homeopathic doctor, and indeed Francis did spend several years at Owens College, an extended period because of poor health, I now read.

However, I still have him in poor health with an infection, perhaps the early stages of tuberculosis, addicted to opium (laudanum) whilst a vagrant, and being rescued by Meynell, when the latter was presented with his poetry no later than early 1888. Some sources say that Meynell settled Thompson into a charitable lodging house in St John's Wood, north London, before taking him to St Giles-in-the-Wood. Not all sources say the same thing!

There are numerous biographies, and unfortunately they all seem to be different! So, I happily concede that Thompson had a medical background, but I still have him in poor health, and apparently not in the East End in the autumn of 1888.

[andy1867]

Funnily enough I used AI to find the Ripper....It was Marc Bolan....apparently...It also told me Sheffield Wednesday would be in The Champions league this year...I'm really perplexed at The ripper bit tho...