The Jack the Ripper Mystery is Finally Solved — Scientifically

[FISHY1118]

The doctors of the time couldn't agree on wether the Ripper had any medical skill. So your point is largely moot. The fact is Bury is a proven murderer and post mortem mutilator. These two facts put Bury head and shoulders above the rest of the suspects.

Please provide Evidence Which ''Doctor'' exactly that couldnt agree with Dr Bonds description of the way Mary Kellys heart was removed ? That old arguement of 'Dr couldnt agree on medical knowledge '' is used way to broadly to support many suspects without such knowledge , totally ignoring the one with it .
'
So again, can you provide any ''Factual Evidence'' Bury was able to remove mary kellys heart in the way Dr Bond expert medical opinion tells us it was ?


Bury is a murderer yes , but a poor suspect as JtR due to his unknown medical knowledge in regards to Mary Kelly heart removal procedure ,which as we all know Thompson was well versed in . So a better suspect he makes .

[GBinOz]

Thank you George .

Hi Fishy,

You are very kind, but there is no need to thank me for supporting you in the statement of the (bleeding) obvious.

Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

With all due respect John, you are proposing that you know more than the professionals who were on the ground investigating at the time. They didn't know who the ripper was, and neither do you. You have also stated that the chances of another murderer operating at the time was virtually zero. So who killed McKenzie, the Pinchin St victim and Frances Coles? Did Bury resurrect himself to kill these women?

I keep mentioning the gap between McKenzie and the Pinchin Street victim was killed by The Torso Killer. As for Frances Coles I'm not sure who killed her. With all due respect the Police at the time didn't solve the Ripper murders by Ripper murders I'm largely talking about the C5 and they didn't solve The Torso Murders either. They also failed to properly investigate Bury. So I don't put much faith in the Police at the time. The gaps between McKenzie, Frances Coles are quite large compared to the gaps between the C5. They weren't killed by the Ripper. As Ive previously stated The Torso Killer and odds on perpetrator of the Pinchin Street victim operated for years. Possibly from 1873 to 1889.

[John Wheat]

Please provide Evidence Which ''Doctor'' exactly that couldnt agree with Dr Bonds description of the way Mary Kellys heart was removed ? That old arguement of 'Dr couldnt agree on medical knowledge '' is used way to broadly to support many suspects without such knowledge , totally ignoring the one with it .
'
So again, can you provide any ''Factual Evidence'' Bury was able to remove mary kellys heart in the way Dr Bond expert medical opinion tells us it was ?


Bury is a murderer yes , but a poor suspect as JtR due to his unknown medical knowledge in regards to Mary Kelly heart removal procedure ,which as we all know Thompson was well versed in . So a better suspect he makes .

Bury was a murderer and post mortem mutilator and head and shoulders above any other Ripper suspect.

[GBinOz]

Please provide Evidence Which ''Doctor'' exactly that couldnt agree with Dr Bonds description of the way Mary Kellys heart was removed ? That old arguement of 'Dr couldnt agree on medical knowledge '' is used way to broadly to support many suspects without such knowledge , totally ignoring the one with it .
'
So again, can you provide any ''Factual Evidence'' Bury was able to remove mary kellys heart in the way Dr Bond expert medical opinion tells us it was ?


Bury is a murderer yes , but a poor suspect as JtR due to his unknown medical knowledge in regards to Mary Kelly heart removal procedure ,which as we all know Thompson was well versed in . So a better suspect he makes .

Hi Fishy,

An astute post indeed. As Prosector has observed, in 1888 the first appendectomy was yet to be performed, and hysterectomies were yet to be performed on living subjects. Doctors had very limited experience of surgery and surgeons were just commencing in their operations on living subjects. Objectively, the opinions of Dr Phillips on matters of dissection are the only ones worthy of consideration.

Prosector concluded that the procedures employed at the murders of Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly were consistent with those employed in dissection schools. Thompson spent six years in dissection schools. Two years was enough to qualify as a doctor, but he didn't proceed in that direction. He did however proceed to write poetry that fantasised about cutting women open and blood letting. His poetry gained notoriety shortly before the JtR murders and he was able to afford new clothing and, probably a better diet. He was in London at the time and purportedly seeking his departed prostitute who he considered to have abandoned him.

If viewed objectively, someone very much like Thompson could have been responsible for at least some of the Whitechapel murders.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

I keep mentioning the gap between McKenzie and the Pinchin Street victim was killed by The Torso Killer. As for Frances Coles I'm not sure who killed her. With all due respect the Police at the time didn't solve the Ripper murders by Ripper murders I'm largely talking about the C5 and they didn't solve The Torso Murders either. They also failed to properly investigate Bury. So I don't put much faith in the Police at the time. The gaps between McKenzie, Frances Coles are quite large compared to the gaps between the C5. They weren't killed by the Ripper. As Ive previously stated The Torso Killer and odds on perpetrator of the Pinchin Street victim operated for years. Possibly from 1873 to 1889.

So how do you reconcile this post with your statement that the chances of there being more than one murderer are virtually zero?

[GBinOz]

Bury was a murderer and post mortem mutilator and head and shoulders above any other Ripper suspect.

With all due respect John, that is just a statement of opinion in the face of actual presentation of fact.

[Mike J. G.]

I'm always a bit baffled when people talk about medical knowledge and how some people, like Thompson, would have been able to remove Kelly's heart with ease and people, such as Bury, wouldn't have.

I'm not suggesting that anyone need to have this knowledge, as it's pretty grim, but I do find it a little naive that people discount the fact that we have ample evidence, for instance, of South American gangs cutting rivals up and removing their hearts and heads and all manner of things, on camera, without any issues. Literally going into the chest with a knife and removing a heart in seconds.

The medical knowledge of the Ripper is in doubt. Frankly, I don't see anything in the medical reports that would indicate that the killer was a trained medical professional as opposed to merely being a person who had some experience cutting people up.

I'm not here to argue for Bury, and while I think he's a good suspect, I've no fixed suspect at all and I tend to believe he's not been named. But I don't understand the narrative that an average Joe couldn't have done these murders. You'd be surprised what sick and perverted people can accomplish.

Unless we start assuming that the likes of Isis and the South American drug cartels are all medically trained professionals who just happened to leave the trade in favour of extremism and criminal activity.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I was new to Casebook when Mr. Patterson first began promoting poet Francis Thompson as JtR. I argued against his notion then. I'm very much aghast at this return of this nonsensical idea.
Next to blaming Lewis Carroll or Vincent Van Gogh, it's absurdity in the extreme. Thompson is an honored English poet, and this attempt to "cancel" his reputation for a supposed connection to Jack the Ripper is just too much!

Well said Pat. There’s too much of this ‘pick someone just because they were alive at the time’ stuff going on.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please provide Evidence Which ''Doctor'' exactly that couldnt agree with Dr Bonds description of the way Mary Kellys heart was removed ? That old arguement of 'Dr couldnt agree on medical knowledge '' is used way to broadly to support many suspects without such knowledge , totally ignoring the one with it .
'
So again, can you provide any ''Factual Evidence'' Bury was able to remove mary kellys heart in the way Dr Bond expert medical opinion tells us it was ?


Bury is a murderer yes , but a poor suspect as JtR due to his unknown medical knowledge in regards to Mary Kelly heart removal procedure ,which as we all know Thompson was well versed in . So a better suspect he makes .

So I assume that, in the spirit of fairness, you apply the same principal to William Gull who, as we all know, wasn’t a surgeon either.

[FISHY1118]

Bury was a murderer and post mortem mutilator and head and shoulders above any other Ripper suspect.

However the facts of Mary Kellys murder suggest he wasnt her killer . Therefor a poor suspect in relation to Thompson

[Herlock Sholmes]

The fact is that despite us having read of varying experts with differing opinions on the level of medical/anatomical knowledge that the killer might or might not have had we still see it being promoted that the killer must have had high level of knowledge and skill. Why would we, as laymen, read of a surgeon disputing this and yet we feel that we know better. We just don’t know is the answer.

We can’t mould the criteria to fit a subject or a group of subjects. For example, If the killer had read up on anatomy because it gave him a thrill he may also have cut up animals. This would have been done in private which could include any suspect. As the level of skill/knowledge is unknown and disputed we should be wary of using it. Apart from this medical knowledge Thompson’s has nothing to favour his candidature or any proposition that he might have been around at the time (like the violent, drunkard, woman-attacking, knife carrying, prostitute consorting murderer and post mortem mutilator)

I mean, why would anyone favour him over a drug addicted, liked, poet in poor health.

[FISHY1118]

I'm always a bit baffled when people talk about medical knowledge and how some people, like Thompson, would have been able to remove Kelly's heart with ease and people, such as Bury, wouldn't have.

I'm not suggesting that anyone need to have this knowledge, as it's pretty grim, but I do find it a little naive that people discount the fact that we have ample evidence, for instance, of South American gangs cutting rivals up and removing their hearts and heads and all manner of things, on camera, without any issues. Literally going into the chest with a knife and removing a heart in seconds.

The medical knowledge of the Ripper is in doubt. Frankly, I don't see anything in the medical reports that would indicate that the killer was a trained medical professional as opposed to merely being a person who had some experience cutting people up.

I'm not here to argue for Bury, and while I think he's a good suspect, I've no fixed suspect at all and I tend to believe he's not been named. But I don't understand the narrative that an average Joe couldn't have done these murders. You'd be surprised what sick and perverted people can accomplish.

Unless we start assuming that the likes of Isis and the South American drug cartels are all medically trained professionals who just happened to leave the trade in favour of extremism and criminal activity.

Mike, My advice to you would be to look more closely at the discussion as to the ''medical procedure'' used to remove Mary Kellys heart , and the two suspects involved as to which one was more likely to have accomplished the deed . Were talking about specific details and facts in relation to the ripper murders .If you have anything to ad in this area id be glad to hear it . Cheers.

[FISHY1118]

So I assume that, in the spirit of fairness, you apply the same principal to William Gull who, as we all know, wasn’t a surgeon either.

Gull wasnt a surgeon but a Physician with a vast degree of medical knowledge , Bury was Neither . In the spirit of fairness we talking about Thompson v Bury as who is a better suspect .

[Mike J. G.]

Mike, My advice to you would be to look more closely at the discussion as to the ''medical procedure'' used to remove Mary Kellys heart , and the two suspects involved as to which one was more likely to have accomplished the deed . Were talking about specific details and facts in relation to the ripper murders .If you have anything to ad in this area id be glad to hear it . Cheers.

Hi, Fishy. I'm unaware of any evidence which would indicate that Kelly's heart was removed in any fashion that would suggest that only a person with medical knowledge would be able to perform it.

They estimated that it took the killer 2 hours to perform the mutilations seen on Kelly, which I think is frankly far too big estimate. I don't think it would have taken that long at all.

Again, I think people underestimate what a determined killer can do.

If you've got any solid evidence that indicates that medical knowledge was necessary then I'm all for having a gander.

Cheers