Sickert's Merits as a Painter (moved thread)

[Limehouse]

Sickrt wasn't Jack the Ripper, we are agreed, however I have studied art..and the fact is that he wasn't a very good artist...if Sceptic Blue will forgive my football analogy..

Walter Sickert was the Vini Jones of the Art world..the English dont like it , but the fact is that Anglo Saxons are good at craft and trade.....they have never produced a good artist..how can you seriously compare him to Degas? The French, the Italians even the Spanish make great Art.....the English make Art like they play football...just ask the Irish, Welsh and Scots...

Last weekend I went to the Matisse Museum in Nice..that is Art!

Believe me Patricia is doing walter Sickert a favour



Well she's Not is she..Patricia is a crime fiction writer..and a very good one...I believe..as i would..shes employing people who can..theres no disgrace in that...

Each to there talents

Its Just sometimes Dan Norder we really wonder what peoples talents actually are..and if you are what you say you are, a little more humility wouldn't go amiss.

Yours Jeff

PS please do not make the mistake of thinking that the fact that I am dyslexic make me stupid

Pirate,

Although you are perfectly entitled to dislike Sickert's work based on personal preference, you cannot say that because you have studied art you can declare Sickert's work as worthless. He is recognised by art experts as being a very talented and important British artist (in fact he was half Danish) and it is perfectly valid to compare him with Degas because they worked together and inspired each other. Indeed, a few years ago there was an excellent exhibition in London which displayed the work of Degas, Sickert and Lautrec alonside each other.

You have to look much further and wider than Sickert's 'Camden Town' period
to appreciate what a wonderful artists he was.

Limehouse

[Jeff Leahy]

Pirate,

Although you are perfectly entitled to dislike Sickert's work based on personal preference, you cannot say that because you have studied art you can declare Sickert's work as worthless. He is recognised by art experts as being a very talented and important British artist (in fact he was half Danish) and it is perfectly valid to compare him with Degas because they worked together and inspired each other. Indeed, a few years ago there was an excellent exhibition in London which displayed the work of Degas, Sickert and Lautrec alonside each other.

You have to look much further and wider than Sickert's 'Camden Town' period
to appreciate what a wonderful artists he was.

Limehouse

Limehouse I never said I disliked Sickerts work...I compared him with Vini Jones...ie He was second division. Rather uninspiring

Its sort of how I feel about british art in general...although sometimes I get excited about Henry Moore even Hurst

Now British Rock and Roll...best in the world...

Ally I will make some equiries and get back to you later xx

[Limehouse]

Sorry, Pirate Jack, but you were passing judgement on Sickert as one 'who has studied art' and your conclusion that he was 'second rate' does not hold water. Whether you like his work or not, one who has studied art should not really be making such a conclusion. Art historians agree that his work was significant, important and skilled. It has, of course, to be judged within its historical context and not alongside British artists who chose 'prettier' topics to paint.

Limehouse

[Jeff Leahy]

The enjoyment and appriciation of art is a completely differant thing to understanding its historical significance/context..

You could argue that David is a more historically imortant painter than angre (you'll have to excuse my spelling but I assume you realize I am talking about french classical painting)

But who is the better painter?

[Jeff Leahy]

Sorry neo- classical

[revpetero]

"I may not know a lot about art but I know what I like"

[Suzi]

Hi revpetero-

At least like a lot of art 'critics' you don't just 'like what you know!'

Jeff- I adore David and all his works!!! The wonderful almost photographic quality always entrances me.......How Pseudo is that!!!!...but you know what I mean!! he heeeeeeeeeeeee anyway he's a dmaned good painter....or was!!!...I was just about to take a bath....but may change my mind!!!

[Suzi]

A sensational painting I always feel....Probably best not to attempt to write in the bath I say.......

All this aside...I admire Sickert immensely and the Music Hall paintings are simply the Cat's A **!! (and THAT'S a compliment!)

[revpetero]

I couldn't agree more. My previous post was just a Monty Python quote

[Bob Hinton]

Pardon?

Posted by pirate Jack.

but the fact is that Anglo Saxons are good at craft and trade.....they have never produced a good artist

So you don't consider Constable or Turner to be 'good' artists? How about B W Leader or Dadds?

I think a few million people might disagree with you on that point.

[Limehouse]

And don't forget Willaim Blake, William Holman Hunt, George Stubbs - and a legion of female artists and if you like your art modern - what about Francis Bacon, Lucian Freud, L S Lowery. And what of designers such as Willam Morris and Edwin Lutyens whose artistic skill extended to beautiful buildings, furniture and wallpapers/fabrics?

[Jeff Leahy]

Posted by pirate Jack.

but the fact is that Anglo Saxons are good at craft and trade.....they have never produced a good artist

So you don't consider Constable or Turner to be 'good' artists? How about B W Leader or Dadds?

I think a few million people might disagree with you on that point.

Fair comment Bob, I must admit here I was being a little provocative..

However my contention, when talking about this period in art would be the masters to consider (please excuss spelling)

MANNET, RENIOR, PISCARO, MONET, MATISSE, VAN GOUGH, perhaps GOGAN

The French were the masters, most english painting is somewhat of side note..in art history terms, anyway

But I really dont want to getbogged down in my veiws on Sickerts painting ability...its irrelivant.

Better get back to FCP class...

[Natalie Severn]

I noticed this thread with regards to British Artists.
For a kick off Turner is considered to be one of the very greatest painters who ever lived.As a painter he is up there with the likes of Titian,Velasquez,Rembrandt,Rubens and just a few others.
Both Constable and Gainsborough are also rated very high,internationally.
Sickert too ranks.He is England"s greatest post Impressionist painter, and one of the first to use newspaper photographs as sources for paintings.He was a pupil of Whistler-also a well rated artist -and worked with Degas,the French painter in Paris.Sickert doesnt appeal to everybody because some of the the subjects he chose to paint,and the thick brush strokes he often used to depict poor prostitutes lying naked on old sheets in dingy rooms-can be depressing viewing.But that was what he wanted to show-the reality of their wretched lives and he did so brilliantly.We certainly do have some great artists.
We dont have that many great women painters its true,but we have some lovely paintings by Gwen John and quite a few more modern women painters.

[Limehouse]

Hi Natalie,

Great post.

Shame about the women painters because they did paint. Women of a certain class were taught painting and drawing - but of course they were not permitted to exhibit their works as often as men were and they were not really taken seriously until the start of the 20th century.

I agree, Sickert was a great painter and so important and of course, the Cornwell book has at least revived an interest in his work.

Limehouse

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Limehouse,
I agree its a shame but things are improving with regards to women getting recognition these days although the market now is almost solely in the hands of the super rich like Charles Satchi and co!
Cheers
Norma [Nats]