Patricia Cornwell

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Mr Schmidt

As I have a copy of the book infront of me i'll give some quotes:

From P221 "As these watermarks continued to turn up, Tate Britain suggested I consult Peter Bower, one od the most respected paper experts and paper historians in the world to see what he had to say about paper comparissons between Sickert and Ripper letters":.

From P224 . "His amazing discovery is this: three Sickert letters written on his mothers stationary and two Ripper letters come from a batch of twenty-four sheets of stationery with the watermark Gurney Ivory Laid."

I can give list of page references to Peter Bower if this is of use?

I have been searching for Dan Norders supposeed experts who contradict Peter Bowers work..but have been unsuccessful to date?

Jeff

[Tom_Wescott]

Peter Bower is a re-noun world wide expert who regularly gives evidence in court

Take comfort in the fact that he doesn't reverberate.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Tom

The glories of spell check...

Think what it would be like without?

[Cap'n Jack]

As I said, I don't mind Pat's efforts in this regard.
There was a time when I had no time for her, but when I look around at some of the absolute cow dung from other authors that have been produced since then, and here I think of a 'suspect' who was supposed to be in the London Docks at the time of one of the murders, but was in fact floating off Madeira without a rudder on his ship at the time, then I think she is making some contribution around here... especially in regard to the 17th September letter.
Which I reckon is going to bite us all in the arse.
I always take note of the fact that her most volatile critics are Yankees; and I think that to be a volatile little fact.

[Tom_Wescott]

Sorry, Jeff, I wasn't picking on you, just couldn't resist that one!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ally]

So Jeff..this big revelation you had in the offing concerning Keith Skinner...it came down to ...we don't know what his contract says? My. That's some sound investigative journalism there. Now as for that huge big of apology for Cornwell...well I'll just take it in pieces, shall I?

So in context..that is why I objected to this statement..because it is evident to me that Keith Skinner is clearly not a 'yes' man and is currently doing work for PC.\

Really? What evidence do you have that disproves the idea that Keith Skinner as a paid researcher in someone else's employ will publish information contrary to the wishes of his employer? Please provide one example, from exact history, when Keith Skinner published privately obtained information that he was being paid to discover on someone else's behalf?

...well news flash..this happened seven years ago! Is this the most recent examples? Has Patricia been on tele attacking Ripperologists within the last three years?

And when has time ever changed the fact of what a person's done? Statute of limitations only exists as a legal concept, not as an entity in the minds of a person. An offense against a person or people remains an offense. Saying well gee, she did that years ago. So what? She did it. She can just accept the repercussions for her actions.

And if you think the whole "she started it, he started it" is childish why do you waste a whole huge paragraph attempting to lay out the timeline of what occurred. Is that not essentially attempting to play the "they started it" game?

Maybe it was, but I don’t think accusing her of paranoia, of being obsessive, out of control, a man-hater, on a looney-tunes mission, and so on, help to generate rational debate about Walter sickert as a JtR suspect.

I don't think we were accusing her of paranoia. I think it's pretty much a given fact. As for the rest, who says that all of that was in an attempt to help generate rational debate about Sickert?

So maybe the disagreement all boils down to what one does or doesn’t find acceptable criticism. Maybe it’s okay to write that someone is ‘anorexic, bulimic, drunk at the wheel and out of control…difficult, obsessive, driven. Her head full of fear…’ (The Independent, 20 October 2002), but not okay to say that ripper website owner doesn’t necessarily know ALL about Jack the Ripper?

Since everything the Independent said was true, she is a confessed anorexic/bulemic, been convicted of DUI, etc...there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they wrote. However what you wrote is out of line. She did not say the website owner didn't know EVERYTHING about Jack the Ripper. She said "Just because you own a website doesn't mean you know ANYTHING about Jack the Ripper". There is a difference and you trying to mitigate what she said by changing is far more uncalled for than the independent printing established facts about her.

Whatever your view, Time has simply moved on and six years worth of water has flowed under the bridge and Patricia Cornwell is apparently making efforts to correct as many of the mistakes she’s made as she can, even unto meeting with Ripperologists and hiring Keith to undertake research for her.

And when she goes on nationally publicized TV and takes back her comments and words, then maybe people will be ready to move on. Meeting with 3 Ripperologists in private after slandering the lot in public is irrelevant.

I feel that I can therefore only judge KS by his actions in the past and on the recommendation of people who know Keith Skinner and have worked with him and also his work. What i do know is that good Ripperologists undertaking research don't always release there findings the moment they are discovered..they hold on, check things, double check things and make sure there findings are good (well the ones I know anyway) But I don't believe Keith would put his employment with PC before his reputation as a Ripperologist...which is huge.

Well as long as you 'feel' he wouldn't, that's really all that matters isn't it? I personally don't think that anyone who signs a contract it would violate it, because that wouldn't do their reputation any good either, would it?

2. I would like posters on casebook to ask themselves what is served by harking back to comments made by PC seven years ago..is it not time to bury the hatchet (excuse pun). Is she not much like many other Ripperologists with their theory, it was MrX or MrY. Whatever else you say about PC, i believe she genuinely believes that Walter Sickert was Jack the Ripper. The claim that she is obsessive..well I've been accused of that, people do see Ripperologists as strange.

What is served by forgetting the comments that she made? Why do people think that it is up to those who have been wronged to forgive, when no restitution or REQUEST FOR FORGIVENESS has been extended by the offender? In short words, if the bitch aint asking for forgiveness, why should it be offered? Yes, she is like any other Ripperologist with a theory. If you act like an ass with an unsupportable theory based on distortions and outright inventions, you get your behind kicked. That's how it goes for everyone. Why are you pleading Cornwell's case, and not Karen Trenouth? Or one of the other people who have made wholly unsupported claims and theories? Maybe you are hoping she'll throw you a bone and some of her millions?

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't have too many nice things to say about Patricia Cornwell's Ripper research or her handling of the work, but I will point out that she commissioned a researcher (Skinner) who does not believe Sickert was the Ripper and who has in the past, and is currently, researching other suspects. In short, she knows he isn't going to go public and endorse her theory.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Cap'n Jack]

Aw, get yourself a bun fight, and Ally is there.
Ally, I would suggest to you that every single author in the Jack the Ripper world has made exactly the same mistake as dear old Pat, in that they become totally suspect orientated, and produce their thoughts and works along those lines; and then allow no interruption of those thoughts and works.
They are determined to make their suspect stick, and no mistake.
They disguise that desire in any manner or form they can, but the bright shining lie comes through.
All are guilty of that.
I have yet to see one of these authors pursue any other suspect, seriously, in their entire career.
I pursue fifty of 'em daily.
But you, you like cosy, nested down with all your mates.
You like those white boys who reckon a Jew boy did it.

[Ally]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap'n Jack
Aw, get yourself a bun fight, and Ally is there.

I am going to assume you were to drunk to actually read my posts previously or notice that my name was mentioned repeatedly in the post I was replying to.

Quote:
Ally, I would suggest to you that every single author in the Jack the Ripper world has made exactly the same mistake as dear old Pat, in that they become totally suspect orientated, and produce their thoughts and works along those lines; and then allow no interruption of those thoughts and works.
They are determined to make their suspect stick, and no mistake.
They disguise that desire in any manner or form they can, but the bright shining lie comes through.
All are guilty of that.

And your point is? And every single author doesn't go around calling other authors money grubbing whores earning money off the backs of murdered women while raking in millions. Every single author doesn't go on national TV and slam an entire group of people for their interests and pursuits, while engaged in that exact same pursuit. I could go on, but what's the point. You rarely read what anyone else writes, so wrapped up in your own hazy little world.

Quote:
But you, you like cosy, nested down with all your mates.
You like those white boys who reckon a Jew boy did it.

And you cozy down with a bottle and no clue. You like to make statements that have no basis in fact or reality because you think it makes you appear to have insight into others. You don't. Lushes never do.

[Cap'n Jack]

My point being, Ally, that if the said author is cosy with you then you accept all that stuff. Turn your dial a bit, and think of several authors who promoted their suspects at the costs of the fact and that was okay by you. You love these guys.
But Pat, she a women, and Queen Mean she like her throne.
I ponder my next statement.
Is it that you probably represent the greatest threat against any chance of reasonable discussion on these boards because you have issues and bonds with cetain male posters on this board who have published material in this regard; and at the same time resent the influence of any women who has published something in this regard, because you haven't, and the one women concerned is a Yankee?
Well, I got a Yankee dollar for ya.

[Tom_Wescott]

Is it that you probably represent the greatest threat against any chance of reasonable discussion on these boards because you have issues and bonds with cetain male posters on this board who have published material in this regard;

The rumor that Ally and I had an affair is completely unfounded. I'm beginning to wonder why I even started it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

As I said Ally I have no objection to you analyzing and finding holes in Patricia's theory on Sickert..thats what Ripperology is about...fair game..

lets just have it on the facts and not personal abuse..

I don't see how I can possibly defend Keith Skinner against something that he has NOT done..I guess over hear in Britain we still like to think of a man as innocent until proven guilty, where as over in the states you just send people to Guentanamo Bay

as fore your last comments, I'm actually quite shocked...is forgiveness really such a bad thing? Is winning the argument really more import than the truth or the Facts?

Personally I'm around here because I'd like to know who Jack the Ripper was?

and its a great time for new theories xxx

however this is all just a side line..is Dan going to produce his scientists that contradict Peter Bower or NOT?

Jeff

PS Tom , your cool, in most walks of life it never shows up, you have to laugh that someone who cant see letters would become a script writer and poster..life is full of irony.

[Tom_Wescott]

My biggest complaint about this thread are the names of the posters - Cap'n Jack and Pirate Jack are a wee bit redundant, are they not? I'm surprised that Dr. X (Johnny Depp) hasn't shown up to mark his territory!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Jeff, irony is watching the two people on the boards who have the least concern about the facts of this case, arguing with each other over the facts of this case.

[JSchmidt]

I guess over hear in Britain we still like to think of a man as innocent until proven guilty, where as over in the states you just send people to Guentanamo Bay

Sorry, but this US of A bashing by both Jacks is unbecoming and reeks of sockpuppetry.
Asking for forgiveness for someone else is one thing, I don't care about that in the least. But this behaviour neither helps your agenda nor does it have anything to do with the thread itself. So stop it.

[Tom_Wescott]

I thought it was fair play since she called him a lush. But maybe I'm only that pissy because I'm an American?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott