Walter Sickert: Whitechapel Murderer ?

[quasar]

Hi all,

Sickert almost certainly not JtR. Something has occured to me whilst studying the case. There seems to be a list of existing suspects who were iether fascinated by JtR, or thought they were JtR.
A. Dr Cream - "I am JtR".
B. W.Bury - his chalk message.
C. F. Deeming - his Bragging that he was JtR.
D. R.D.Stephenson - his inside knowledge.
E. W. Sickert - his obbsession with Jack in his paintings.
F. Maybrick - If he did write the diary, his possible dillusion that he was.
Just because of Sickert's interest in JtR, or dellusion that he was JtR, Cornwell seems to think it's case closed. Thanks, Q.

[The Good Michael]

All was crap. It was contrived. There was no evidence of anything, just surmise that revolved around a circle of decadent folks that may not have even known each other in the least.

Mike

[JTRSickert]

Besides the claim by Joseph Gorman, did Wally ever produce any actual offspring during any of his marriages?

[Celesta]

If Ms Cornwell really wanted to prove Sickert was the Ripper, she would have made much more of an effort to determine where he was during the autumn of 1888, or at least at the time when some of the women were killed.

Yes, Julie, this was really sloppy on her part. I can't imagine why she thought no one would call her out on this.

[Mike Covell]

D. R.D.Stephenson - his inside knowledge.

The victims where buggered, and the writing on the wall in Mitre-square is hardly inside knowledge.

[Paddy Goose]

Yes that was sloppy work on the part of the author, Celesta.

But the part I found an outright fraud was her treatment of Abberline. She wrote a special section describing Abberline as tending his garden in retirement and never mentioning the Ripper case again. When in fact the Pall Mall interviews and Abberline's flirtation with George Chapman being suspect is well known and documented repeatedly in published secondary sources. She knew that. Her research team knew that. She outright lied, demonstrating that her book was marketed to the masses, and not a serious attempt at solving the crimes.

Paddy

[John Wheat]

No the Walter Sickert theory is a crackpot theory dreamed up by a second rate crime writer largely probably to boost her own failing career.

[Graham]

No the Walter Sickert theory is a crackpot theory dreamed up by a second rate crime writer largely probably to boost her own failing career.

Except that Cornwell didn't 'dream up' the Sickert Theory. It pre-dates her book by a number of years.

However, I can go with 'crackpot' and 'second rate', all the same...

G

[John Wheat]

Yes sorry your right however Cornwell has I would say advanced but regressed the theory over recent years and I assume sales of her other books have benefited from her second rate book about Sickert and that useless DNA test which proved Sickert may have written one of the hoax Ripper letters.

[Mutt]

Probably Not

Fingering a man for a 121 year old murder minus very clear and definitive evidence is in my opinion not such a good idea. From the other side of the argument, it is also not appropriate to definitively exclude a potential suspect without similarly powerful evidence to the contrary, or a powerful enough lead linking someone else to the crimes. This is especially true if physical evidence surfaces (in this case DNA) linking that individual to an item related to the murders. I would argue that this remains true even if that evidence is tangential to the murders and some circumstantial facts are developed putting the potential killer at different physical locations. I would move Sickert down a sliding scale, not at the bottom, but near enough to honor the exculpatory evidence placing him elsewhere.

[Graham]

I have to be totally honest here and admit to not reading Cornwell's book - I started it, but after a couple of chapters I thought it was c-r-a-p. Same goes for the TV 'documentary' she produced. The impression I have is that she tried to bend fact to fit her theory, never a good idea. That Sickert was in France during the late summer/early autumn of 1888 is really beyond doubt, and for Cornwell to say that she couldn't prove he wasn't in France is just nonsensical. The facts very strongly suggest that he was.

Also, although he did express an interest in the Ripper Crimes, he was hugely interested in London low life in general, witness his paintings of music hall scenes and his strange portrayals of working-class people. He painted nude women lying on beds - where else would they lie? - so it was suggested that he based these paintings on the corpse of Mary Jane Kelly which he had somehow seen. Nonsense. He may well have written one or more of the 'Ripper Letters', but he wasn't the only person who faked them. It was quite a cottage industry during the Ripper scare, and for a long time afterwards.

From what I gather he had no legitimate children from his three marriages, but almost certainly produced a few illegitmate ones - Joseph Gorman described himself as one of the latter.

After he retired from the Metropolitain Police, Abberline was for a number of years working as a private detective for Pinkerton's - he may well have tended his garden, but probably only in advanced old age. And it seems that he was never shy about describing his involvement in the Ripper Case.

Cornwell should have stuck to her fiction - mind, Sickert book comes under that heading, as it happens.

Graham

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
To suggest Walter Sickert was Jack The Ripper, would seem quite ludricous to most people, and I would agree.
However many Casebook members still suggest, that is was still posssible that this gentleman wrote at least one Ripper letter, and conclude that this means nothing, refering to all of the hoax letters sent.
I for one would not agree with that opinion, one wonders if for instance, if it was proven that such characters as Druitt, Maybrick, Cuthbush, Kosminski, J Barnett, or Fleming, might have wrote a letter, that would have been dismissed as insignificant also.
Walter Sickert is among the countless lists of suspects, and any proven letter writting I feel would place him very near the top of any suspects list.
Regards Richard.

[Limehouse]

Hi,
To suggest Walter Sickert was Jack The Ripper, would seem quite ludricous to most people, and I would agree.
However many Casebook members still suggest, that is was still posssible that this gentleman wrote at least one Ripper letter, and conclude that this means nothing, refering to all of the hoax letters sent.
I for one would not agree with that opinion, one wonders if for instance, if it was proven that such characters as Druitt, Maybrick, Cuthbush, Kosminski, J Barnett, or Fleming, might have wrote a letter, that would have been dismissed as insignificant also.
Walter Sickert is among the countless lists of suspects, and any proven letter writting I feel would place him very near the top of any suspects list.
Regards Richard.

Good point Richard - but keep in mind the prolonged hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper based on the investigating officer's conviction that the person (Geordie) who sent the letter and audio tape was the killer. If he had not been so convinced, Sutcliffe may have been muich higher up the suspect list and may have been apprehended sooner.

[John Wheat]

So by your reckoning then Richard the journalist who wrote the majority of the hoax Ripper letters should be at the top of the suspects list.

[perrymason]

I have to be totally honest here and admit to not reading Cornwell's book - I started it, but after a couple of chapters I thought it was c-r-a-p. Same goes for the TV 'documentary' she produced. The impression I have is that she tried to bend fact to fit her theory, never a good idea. That Sickert was in France during the late summer/early autumn of 1888 is really beyond doubt, and for Cornwell to say that she couldn't prove he wasn't in France is just nonsensical. The facts very strongly suggest that he was.

Also, although he did express an interest in the Ripper Crimes, he was hugely interested in London low life in general, witness his paintings of music hall scenes and his strange portrayals of working-class people. He painted nude women lying on beds - where else would they lie? - so it was suggested that he based these paintings on the corpse of Mary Jane Kelly which he had somehow seen. Nonsense. He may well have written one or more of the 'Ripper Letters', but he wasn't the only person who faked them. It was quite a cottage industry during the Ripper scare, and for a long time afterwards.

From what I gather he had no legitimate children from his three marriages, but almost certainly produced a few illegitmate ones - Joseph Gorman described himself as one of the latter.

After he retired from the Metropolitain Police, Abberline was for a number of years working as a private detective for Pinkerton's - he may well have tended his garden, but probably only in advanced old age. And it seems that he was never shy about describing his involvement in the Ripper Case.

Cornwell should have stuck to her fiction - mind, Sickert book comes under that heading, as it happens.

Graham

People forget Graham that Ripper letters flowed in by the hundreds each and every week after he had been given his name by one of them. Some also preceded Dear Boss. Ive heard that we have knowledge of around 250 letters that were at one time stored in Ripper files, most only know a handful's contents, yet Ive heard that thousands were sent over time.

Sickert almost certainly will be proven to have written a letter or 2..the hints of DNA found suggest that further testing might prove that. That in and of itself makes him a hoax letter writer....a long way down the list of Dangerous Men at Large, at that time.

Ms Cornwall should not have proceeded with her thinking once she discovered he wasnt even in London for most if not all of the Ripper killings. Just like the Prince. And Ostrog.

Cheers Graham, all the best.