Florence The Ripperess

[Lombro2]

"Bury can't make it out the front door."

And I said that before I found out he stuffed his wife in a crate and left her in the flat. He couldn't even make it out the front door of his home after the crime with the body.

Not even a good copycat!... Most copycats will actually make it out their own front door and make it look like a serial killer did it and won't stay home and try to cover it up.

[John Wheat]

YES. YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!

Bury couldn’t make it out the front door if it was wide open, if there were neon signs pointing the way, if a marching band escorted him with trumpets blaring. Bury couldn’t make it out the front door if the laws of physics bent in his favor, if time itself paused to give him a head start. He’d trip, he’d stumble, he’d turn in circles like a lost puppy, until finally, FINALLY, he’d do the only thing he’s capable of, walk straight into disaster.

Yes! YES! This is the truth, the absolute, undeniable, inescapable truth! If Bury was given a map, a guide, and magical intervention, he’d still find a way to fail! The front door is his Everest, his impossible dream, his great undoing!

I have never agreed with anything more in my LIFE.



The Baron

Ridiculous post.

[caz]

But the diary was in all likelihood written by Anne and Mike Barrett. Bury may well have been Jack. If a diary turned up reportedly by Bury claiming to be Jack then it might strengthen the case for him being the Ripper however of it was a phony diary created by a conman and his wife it would not have any bearing on wether Bury was the Ripper or not.

That was kind of my point, John.

A phony diary - before the author has been positively identified [and not just suspected by the court of popular opinion] - has no bearing on whether its main character had killed once in real life, or several times, or never.

In the same way, The Scottish Play has no bearing on what its main character did or didn't do in life.

This is why I think Chris Jones is going about this in an oddly illogical way. Once he had satisfied himself that the diary was a phony, which could not have been written by the real James Maybrick, he should have dropped it like a hot brick, instead of which he is still using its 'phony' contents, written by God knows whom and God knows when, to argue that if Maybrick had been the killer, he'd have mentioned this, or that, or the other - in this same phony diary.

Do you see the problem?

Love,

Caz
X

[The Baron]

Bury can’t make it out the front door.

YES. YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!

Bury couldn’t make it out the front door if it was wide open, if there were neon signs pointing the way, if a marching band escorted him with trumpets blaring. Bury couldn’t make it out the front door if the laws of physics bent in his favor, if time itself paused to give him a head start. He’d trip, he’d stumble, he’d turn in circles like a lost puppy, until finally, FINALLY, he’d do the only thing he’s capable of, walk straight into disaster.

Yes! YES! This is the truth, the absolute, undeniable, inescapable truth! If Bury was given a map, a guide, and magical intervention, he’d still find a way to fail! The front door is his Everest, his impossible dream, his great undoing!

I have never agreed with anything more in my LIFE.



The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

Absolutely ridiculous post.

But that's a nice scoring system you got. You just need to flip it upsidedown.

Perhaps I should add “named in an obviously forged diary” to the list of criteria?

[Lombro2]

The subject has been reduced to this John. A murderer, mutilator, violent past, drunkard, knife carrier, linked to prostitutes, troubled early life, criminal, living in the vicinity and on the other hand a woman raised in a genteel manner who was falsely accused of poisoning whilst living in Liverpool! Would you have believed the subject could sink so low? What an embarrassment when people read the content. It’s a sad state of affairs.

Absolutely ridiculous post.

But that's a nice scoring system you got. You just need to flip it upsidedown.

[John Wheat]

Florence Maybrick is a far better suspect than William Bury. She had the motive, the means, and the intelligence. It’s not even a debate.



The Baron

Absolutely ridiculous post.

[c.d.]

I mentioned this before in the diary thread. According to the author of the book Did She Kill Him the police damn near tore the house apart in searching for clues as to Maybrick's death. Make of it what you will.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But the diary was in all likelihood written by Anne and Mike Barrett. Bury may well have been Jack. If a diary turned up reportedly by Bury claiming to be Jack then it might strengthen the case for him being the Ripper however of it was a phony diary created by a conman and his wife it would not have any bearing on wether Bury was the Ripper or not.

The subject has been reduced to this John. A murderer, mutilator, violent past, drunkard, knife carrier, linked to prostitutes, troubled early life, criminal, living in the vicinity and on the other hand a woman raised in a genteel manner who was falsely accused of poisoning whilst living in Liverpool! Would you have believed the subject could sink so low? What an embarrassment when people read the content. It’s a sad state of affairs.

[The Baron]

Florence Maybrick is a far better suspect than William Bury. She had the motive, the means, and the intelligence. It’s not even a debate.



The Baron

[Lombro2]

Bury can’t make it out the front door.

Florence is way more cold-blooded. They said she had vacant eyes.

[John Wheat]

I understand all the reasons for Florence not being Jack the Ripper.

What I'm not so sure about is how a diary written by anyone after Maybrick's death could be considered proof that he wasn't, or make the very idea absurd.

If someone faked a diary portraying William Bury as Jack, would it be proof that he wasn't? Might it depend on how badly or how recently you judged it to have been faked? Would your favourite chant have been: "Rubbish! The diary was odds-on faked by a loser, so the idea that Bury was Jack is absurd"?

IMHO, as an unidentified serial offender, Jack was more likely to have been one of the many thousands of men who drew no attention to themselves at the time of the murders, than among the few names that were either crossed off the list or could not be connected to more than one crime scene or victim at most. The police were falling over themselves to catch the killer but, to their credit, they didn't collectively go for the low hanging fruit or pick the lowest one to hang for a series of murders. There were also many false Jacks, who were disturbed enough to 'confess' to the murders, with no credible evidence against them and no reason to believe their stories.

Love,

Caz
X

But the diary was in all likelihood written by Anne and Mike Barrett. Bury may well have been Jack. If a diary turned up reportedly by Bury claiming to be Jack then it might strengthen the case for him being the Ripper however of it was a phony diary created by a conman and his wife it would not have any bearing on wether Bury was the Ripper or not.

[Mike J. G.]

Florence Maybrick is a better Jack the Ripper suspect than her husband, James!

First, she's a convicted murderer. That alone puts her miles ahead of James, who, despite all the theories, was never even accused of killing anyone before that diary surfaced.

Her initials F.M. were found on the wall at a crime scene. A clear sign she wanted to leave her mark, literally.

She had an actual reason to hate her husband. He cheated on her constantly, so what better revenge than framing him for the most infamous murders in history? Writing a diary incriminating him would be child's play after poisoning him. Florence faked the Diary and the infamous Watch, it was a woman's watch!

She's a woman, which means she could blend in without suspicion. The police were looking for a man, so they never even considered that a respectable lady with a fancy hat and a hidden knife might be behind it all.

As an upper class woman, she could have easily afforded surgical training. Maybe she secretly attended medical lectures while James was busy having affairs.

The Graffiti Was Blaming Someone, just like Florence did, the GSG message suggests someone was trying to shift blame, a theme that fits Florence’s story perfectly. She was a woman scorned, full of resentment toward James:
James is the man that will not be blamed for nothing!

Unlike her husband, who was 50 years old, riddled with arsenic, and barely holding himself together, hardly the nimble killer the Ripper would need to be. Florence, on the other hand, was a spry 25, young enough to navigate the dark alleys of Whitechapel without needing a nap between murders.

She was American. And let's face it Americans love making a name for themselves in British history. Maybe she wanted to leave her mark in more ways than one.

She eventually made her way back to America, because even Jack the Ripper needed a fresh start!

Some of the Ripper letters included American spellings and phrases, Florence was born and raised in the U.S., meaning she would naturally use American spelling and expressions.

She fits the profile of a vengeful killer. Unlike her husband, who was supposedly killing for... fun? Hallucinations? Florence had the perfect psychological profile, a betrayed woman lashing out at the very symbols of her betrayal.

And most importantly, She had a personal grudge against prostitutes. Who were they to complain about James’ affairs, when she was the one stuck with him? Every victim was a twisted metaphor for the women in her husband’s life, getting rid of them one by one was her way of controlling what she couldn’t in her marriage.

In conclusion, a convicted murderer with a motive, an alibi proof disguise, possible surgical knowledge, and initials on a crime scene wall? With this overwhelming evidence, it’s safe to say Florence Maybrick is a far better Jack the Ripper suspect than James ever was.



The Baron

Honestly, I'd say it makes as much, if not more sense than the Maybrick story. The things I don't agree with, though, are that Florence killed anybody, much less James, or that there was an FM anywhere in Kelly's room.

[caz]

Neither Florence or James Maybrick were the Ripper the idea that either is absurd.

I understand all the reasons for Florence not being Jack the Ripper.

What I'm not so sure about is how a diary written by anyone after Maybrick's death could be considered proof that he wasn't, or make the very idea absurd.

If someone faked a diary portraying William Bury as Jack, would it be proof that he wasn't? Might it depend on how badly or how recently you judged it to have been faked? Would your favourite chant have been: "Rubbish! The diary was odds-on faked by a loser, so the idea that Bury was Jack is absurd"?

IMHO, as an unidentified serial offender, Jack was more likely to have been one of the many thousands of men who drew no attention to themselves at the time of the murders, than among the few names that were either crossed off the list or could not be connected to more than one crime scene or victim at most. The police were falling over themselves to catch the killer but, to their credit, they didn't collectively go for the low hanging fruit or pick the lowest one to hang for a series of murders. There were also many false Jacks, who were disturbed enough to 'confess' to the murders, with no credible evidence against them and no reason to believe their stories.

Love,

Caz
X

[FISHY1118]

When the baying masses stop posting about him and providing fodder for 'barking mad' minority theories?

Do I win £5?

Not bad, I,ll think about it... $5 tho haha.