Can you see an 'FM' on the backwall in the famous Mary Kelly photograph?

[Iconoclast]

Firstly, the crossing line of the "F" is, for some reason, diagonal. Why does it slope downwards? It should be horizontal.

Herlock,

If you start - as you do - from the premise that the initials aren't there then is it any surprise that you manage to produce so many reasons to back up your belief?

Lines should be slanted, should they? If you add lines you can make other letters? That's the argument of someone looking to dissipate the discussion.

I'm not going to get into it here but the Jesus in the Toast phenomenon springs from the fact that there are millions of slices of toast made every single day around the world whereas there's only one MJK1 and - lo! - it has Florence's initials on Kelly's wall and you simply don't want them to be there.

We get it, you don't want 'FM' to be on Kelly's wall - so much so that you can't even say, "Yes, I see the shapes you're talking about and that is a coincidence, that is true".

[Iconoclast]

[I]If you want to hang your hat on the effect of a flash bulb doesn't computer processing trump that by a great deal?
c.d.

Not in 1888 it didn't.

The challenge was how did the police not see the initials and the response was because the room was too gloomy. We saw it in MJK1 because of the light from the flash.

Someone previously once posted something along the lines of, "So surely someone saw the initials when the flash went off" which - to me - showed the sort of piercingly stretched reasoning I was up against.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is very amateurish (of me, yours are amazing) but in response to Herlock's requests on another thread here is my attempt to highlight the troublesome 'F' shape (even my highlighting is hard to see but I have attempted to draw the eye to the shape that looks like an 'F' as this seems to be a common sticking point):

By the way, Ike, I should have thanked you for providing the overdrawn "F" (although my request was for both the "F" and the "M").

It makes my point for me.

Firstly, the crossing line of the "F" is, for some reason, diagonal. Why does it slope downwards? It should be horizontal.

Secondly, when compared to the identical image posted in #90 of the of the old hoax thread, it can be seen that you have added in a vertical connecting line from the diagonal line to the top of the supposed "F". It's not in the original image, so that's not an overdrawing it's an addition which links two unconnected lines.

Thirdly, you didn't overdraw the little curl which extends the top line of your "F" on the left hand side, presumably because that's not a natural part of an F.

If one wants to do so, one could add a horizontal line at the bottom to form an "E". Or extend the diagonal line (omitting the top line and the imaginary connecting line) to form a "T". I can also easily make out the number "4" if I want to see it.

But it's just like the face of Jesus on a piece of toast. The fact that you can see it if you want to see it, doesn't mean that it's actually there. It's just a blotch amongst a number of blotches..

That said, I voted for option 5 because, while I think the "M" was a random blotch exploited by the hoaxer, I doubt he saw an "F", which he probably only saw on Kelly's arm, as evidenced by the text of the diary which is inconsistent with the placing of initials (plural) together on a wall.

[rjpalmer]

I promise you, I'm not one of the two votes for Maybrick (and, obviously, I therefore haven't voted).

I thought you had nothing but scorn for the argumentum ad populum.

[c.d.]

I think it was Tempus Omnia Revelat back in the day who made the excellent observation that the photographer blasted the wall for a billionth of a second with some kind of LVP flash bulb - thereby bringing to life the detail on the wall.

Patricia Cornwell said in her video that she hired a top Forensics Document Examiner to sharpen the photo of Kelly on her bed using computer processing. After examining the wall next to the bed Cornwell said she saw a very distinctive caricature of Sickert's face. She does not mention seeing the famous F.M. initials of diary fame. She might have addressed the initials somewhere else but here she does not.

If you want to hang your hat on the effect of a flash bulb doesn't computer processing trump that by a great deal?

I couldn't find the image which she claims was a caricature of Sickert's face but I have seen it before and it does look like it. A much harder feat to pull of than initials consisting of straight lines.

c.d.

[Mike J. G.]

For me, as others have already mentioned, the supposed initials are in a really awkward position, bed level, where the killer would have had to lean across in order to write.

I don't know of many killers who enjoy leaving messages that do so in such a fashion. Messages at crime scenes are generally pretty noticeable, which is arguably the whole point in leaving a message to begin with, be it the pentagrams of Ramirez or the edgy musings of the Manson family. Sir Jim's efforts are pretty pointless if the only person to actually get the vague message was Simon Wood, via a grainy photograph over a century later.

I know it's all been discussed before, but it's still as true now as ever, that the entire room was gone over with a fine tooth comb. Any messages left on that wall would have very likely been seen by many. An FM that's obvious enough to Maybrick supporters over 100 years later would have absolutely been obvious to the many people who were in that room in 1888, especially seeing as it would have become more prominent once fully dried.

[Geddy2112]

I still think that wall has been wiped clean...

[FrankO]

A third point is…how come the police at the time made no mention of it? They were desperate for clues.

That's the point where, for me, it would start - and end. Good point, Mike.

[Iconoclast]

Now, we may have a regional thing going on here combined with my DIY knowledge being on a par with my tech knowledge (yes, that good). My Nan, and others, used to describe skirting board as wainscotting. Apparently wainscotting is wooden panelling that goes part way up a wall.

I’ll ditch the DIY terminology Ike and rephrase. If the lettering had been found 6 inches above the floor…..

I understood your point, and I guessed it was something towards the floor, but I've never heard the term used before. You live and learn.

[Iconoclast]

A second point is this. It’s not a pleasant point but the ‘writer’ hardly had a shortage of ‘ink’ did he? So how could he possibly have failed, in a room virtually swimming in blood, to a) make the first letter less distinct than the second, and b) make the first letter so that it’s not discernable.

A third point is…how come the police at the time made no mention of it? They were desperate for clues.

I can't account for the faintness of the 'F' relative to the 'M'. I have seen it argued before (probably by me) that the author realised his 'F' wasn't as marked as he would have liked and so made sure that his 'M' was clearer. Of course, this then leaves us with the quandary of why he didn't go back to his 'F' and improve it. I don't know.

Your last point has been raised a million times on the Maybrick threads, Herlock (you really must spend more time over here - don't worry, you can get antibiotics afterwards). The short version is that her room was too gloomy for dried blood initials to be distinguishable from other blood or dirt on her wall.

So how come we see those initials, I hear you ask?

I think it was Tempus Omnia Revelat back in the day who made the excellent observation that the photographer blasted the wall for a billionth of a second with some kind of LVP flash bulb - thereby bringing to life the detail on the wall.

That's the theory anyway ...

[Herlock Sholmes]

What is wainscotting, Herlock?

Asking for a friend ...

Now, we may have a regional thing going on here combined with my DIY knowledge being on a par with my tech knowledge (yes, that good). My Nan, and others, used to describe skirting board as wainscotting. Apparently wainscotting is wooden panelling that goes part way up a wall.

I’ll ditch the DIY terminology Ike and rephrase. If the lettering had been found 6 inches above the floor…..

[Iconoclast]

I agree that it’s certainly proof of nothing Ike but if they had moved the bed away from the wall and we had seen those 2 ‘letters’ near the wainscotting we wouldn’t be discussing whether they were by the killer or not, so location, while not decisive, can give us a possible pointer. I’d say that the location nudges them a little further in the direction of ‘unconnected.’ Imo of course.

What is wainscotting, Herlock?

Asking for a friend ...

[Herlock Sholmes]

A second point is this. It’s not a pleasant point but the ‘writer’ hardly had a shortage of ‘ink’ did he? So how could he possibly have failed, in a room virtually swimming in blood, to a) make the first letter less distinct than the second, and b) make the first letter so that it’s not discernable.

A third point is…how come the police at the time made no mention of it? They were desperate for clues.

[Iconoclast]

I’d say that the location nudges them a little further in the direction of ‘unconnected.’

This point has been raised before and there's a large part of me agrees with the principle if not the actual point.

[Iconoclast]

Here are my versions:

This one is the original placed on my 'expanded' photo enhancement. The 'FM' can be seen.

Just been paying more attention to your map and form and website. That's an incredible piece of work you've pulled together there, Richard! I generally only ever post on the Maybrick section of the Casebook so I'm sure I'm last to the party here but this lot are about to be 'Favourited' by me!