Can you see an 'FM' on the backwall in the famous Mary Kelly photograph?

[JeffHamm]

Hi Jeff.

The glass plate negative is long gone.

What survives are two prints of Mary Kelly on her bed, and strange to say, we aren't looking at either of them.

The photo Ike (and Feldman) are using to see the 'FM' is actually a photograph of one of the prints and it is imperfectly done.

The second of two surviving prints is a brown-tinted 'sepia' version returned to Scotland Yard in 1988. Those who have seen it (such as Rob Clack and David Barrat) insist that there is no writing on the wall. And this is said to be the clearer of the two prints.

...

Hi rj,

Oh, that's a shame. For some reason I thought the glass plate was still around (obviously it was not a very good reason).

The fact that nothing is seen in the actual sepia photograph, though, is exactly why proper historical research requires viewing original source material, and why reproductions (like photographs of the original, or scans, etc) are simply not good enough. Too many artefacts get introduced, like the flash you point out. I suppose if the Rumbelow photo does show something, then it becomes a matter of working out why one photo shows something that the other does not? If the sepia is the clearer print, then it obviously is the better material to work from. The variability in terms of seeing the letters in the reproduced images we've seen tends to weigh against the "letters" being there in my opinion.

So if there's nothing to be seen in both of the actual surviving photographs (particularly the higher quality one) then it's all a discussion about will-o-the-wisps. Hmmm, I suppose one could say that the fact the diary refers to these supposed letters, then the author of the diary seems to be basing things upon artefacts found in the reproduced photos and not something that was actually present at the crime scene, as evidenced by the original source material, which points to the diary being a forgery written after the reproduced images were made public (probably after Farson, 1973). That, of course, depends upon one arguing that the forger spotted the "letters" in the reproduced images and worked that into their storyline.

Thanks for all the info.

- Jeff

[Lombro2]

This sounds so much like the issue with the Patterson-Gimlin Film. Most people see only a fifth or sixth generation copy, but you need to go to the original master copy to get a full appreciation of Patty.

Bigfoot Proof…3 Images That Prove the Patterson-Gimlin Film is Real - YouTube

This is another example of where mainstream Ripperology follows the pattern of the Bigfoot faithful and the Patterson-Gimlin believers, just so that people get the correct application of the analogy.

As for the letter M, I see nuzzing. And I don't see the wallet on Patty's right thigh, the sagging part on the butt that looks like a separation in a costume, or where Patty stops for a second to wait for Patterson to recover himself after he trips. I see nuzzing.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The difference being that we know that Jack the Ripper existed but we know that Bigfoot doesn’t unless you count various films of men in costumes or pictures of shaded areas in undergrowth.

[Geddy2112]

The wall was wiped... it had more graffiti on it, mentioning free mason names and rituals. It was cleaned before the photo was taken to protect the high up masons. The priests from the Temples of Syrinx did it... what can this strange device be, when I touch it it gives forth a sound...

Sorry... I'm not good at these 'seeing things' in photos. Would be nice to know who did her tattoo though.

[GBinOz]

The difference being that we know that Jack the Ripper existed but we know that Bigfoot doesn’t unless you count various films of men in costumes or pictures of shaded areas in undergrowth.

A bold statement indeed. I have friend from Washington state that assured me that he had both seen and smelled Bigfoot. He is an engineer, used to observing and assessing factual information. Are you aware that your opinion was generally accepted about the reputed large hairy man in central Africa until about 1908, when the mountain Gorilla was discovered?

Cheers, George

[Mike J. G.]

A bold statement indeed. I have friend from Washington state that assured me that he had both seen and smelled Bigfoot. He is an engineer, used to observing and assessing factual information. Are you aware that your opinion was generally accepted about the reputed large hairy man in central Africa until about 1908, when the mountain Gorilla was discovered?

Cheers, George

With all due respect, the mountain gorilla was doubted for a brief period until it was seen, verified and catalogued. We were able to do that because it was a living creature that actually left a trace of itself. We found it a long time ago...

Bigfoot is a modern myth, and absolutely no credible evidence has ever been found because it simply doesn't exist, and it's not for a lack of looking.

Many people get things wrong, despite their occupation. Your friend likely saw and smelled either a bear or another person. There's a 0.0% chance that he legitimately encountered a 7-10 foot tall hairy bipedal ape-man that has managed to evade science in one of the most traversed countries on earth.

Anyway, back to Maybrick!

[Mike J. G.]

This sounds so much like the issue with the Patterson-Gimlin Film. Most people see only a fifth or sixth generation copy, but you need to go to the original master copy to get a full appreciation of Patty.

Bigfoot Proof…3 Images That Prove the Patterson-Gimlin Film is Real - YouTube

This is another example of where mainstream Ripperology follows the pattern of the Bigfoot faithful and the Patterson-Gimlin believers, just so that people get the correct application of the analogy.

As for the letter M, I see nuzzing. And I don't see the wallet on Patty's right thigh, the sagging part on the butt that looks like a separation in a costume, or where Patty stops for a second to wait for Patterson to recover himself after he trips. I see nuzzing.

Patty's diaper and the separation between the thigh and the rest of the leg are in every frame, though. The "wallet" is likely not there, but the other features are, as they're not film artifacts, they're part of the costume, very similar to how Charles Gemora made his suits in the '30's.

As for the FM, I've never really been able to see it, and it's likely a result of being a photograph of a photograph. Connecting it with a vague line from the scrapbook is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A bold statement indeed. I have friend from Washington state that assured me that he had both seen and smelled Bigfoot. He is an engineer, used to observing and assessing factual information. Are you aware that your opinion was generally accepted about the reputed large hairy man in central Africa until about 1908, when the mountain Gorilla was discovered?

Cheers, George

I just can’t help being super sceptical George, to the point where some call me negative or bloody minded I know. Until one is actually produced I just can’t accept that they exist. We would have seen better evidence.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Patty's diaper and the separation between the thigh and the rest of the leg are in every frame, though. The "wallet" is likely not there, but the other features are, as they're not film artifacts, they're part of the costume, very similar to how Charles Gemora made his suits in the '30's.

As for the FM, I've never really been able to see it, and it's likely a result of being a photograph of a photograph. Connecting it with a vague line from the scrapbook is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

That label on the back gave it away Mike.

[c.d.]

I just can’t help being super sceptical George, to the point where some call me negative or bloody minded I know. Until one is actually produced I just can’t accept that they exist. We would have seen better evidence.

Saw a recent episode of Expedition Unknown with Josh Gates dealing with Bigfoot/Yeti. The best evidence samples from around the world collected over a period of years were sent to one of the most highly respected DNA testing labs in the world. Their conclusion was that in every instance the samples were from various species of bears including one species that had been thought to be extinct.

Makes sense given the size of bears, their fur and the fact that they can stand on their hind legs. A lot of the sightings are at night or in poor conditions or at high elevations from exhausted people suffering from lack of oxygen.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Saw a recent episode of Expedition Unknown with Josh Gates dealing with Bigfoot/Yeti. The best evidence samples from around the world collected over a period of years were sent to one of the most highly respected DNA testing labs in the world. Their conclusion was that in every instance the samples were from various species of bears including one species that had been thought to be extinct.

Makes sense given the size of bears, their fur and the fact that they can stand on their hind legs. A lot of the sightings are at night or in poor conditions or at high elevations from exhausted people suffering from lack of oxygen.

c.d.

I reckon bears count for the vast majority of sightings c.d. Factor in a bit of panic, factor in some undergrowth, factor in liars, factor in alcohol/drugs, factor in attention seeking.

I saw one documentary where the story was that a farmer had found a Sasquatch, showed it to some people and then buried it on his property but he wouldn’t tell anyone where. The modern day researcher said, something like, but when locals/researchers dug up his land they found that he’d replaced the body with that of a plastic model!

I felt like screaming at the TV “no you dimwit, that plastic this WAS the Sasquatch.”

[c.d.]

I reckon bears count for the vast majority of sightings c.d. Factor in a bit of panic, factor in some undergrowth, factor in liars, factor in alcohol/drugs, factor in attention seeking.

I saw one documentary where the story was that a farmer had found a Sasquatch, showed it to some people and then buried it on his property but he wouldn’t tell anyone where. The modern day researcher said, something like, but when locals/researchers dug up his land they found that he’d replaced the body with that of a plastic model!

I felt like screaming at the TV “no you dimwit, that plastic this WAS the Sasquatch.”

Biologist have said that a single Bigfoot would need to be part of a tribe. The tribe would need a large territory and a large food source. They also pointed to the fact that you would expect to find at least one dead body of a Bigfoot which has never been found.

c.d.