Maybrick/Formby Connection?

[MayBea]

Afternoon,The missing pages could be very important to clear up the mystery of the diary why remove them?...

If it was one of the volumes of Florence Maybrick's 'diaries', she, or someone else, could have removed her pages of written entries or pictures and then given the book away with the missing pages.

That's the only explanation I can think of if the diary is genuine.

[pinkmoon]

The Baroness wrote a letter about her attempt to get a hold of some missing books which she says would have cleared up some mysteries...If one of them was the Diary, could she not have gotten a hold of it in 1889 and had it in 1910 when she died?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH18891123.2.58.24

She denied they were diaries but perhaps they were used as photo albums.

The rumors about the "diaries" came out of London, according to her. Wasn't Yapp there by that time?

Afternoon,The missing pages could be very important to clear up the mystery of the diary why remove them?I have little doubt that the diary was removed from battlecrease shortly before it was launched onto the general public in what condition and what it contained when it was removed from battlecrease I do not know.

[MayBea]

The Baroness wrote a letter about her attempt to get a hold of some missing books which she says would have cleared up some mysteries...If one of them was the Diary, could she not have gotten a hold of it in 1889 and had it in 1910 when she died?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH18891123.2.58.24

She denied they were diaries but perhaps they were used as photo albums.

The rumors about the "diaries" came out of London, according to her. Wasn't Yapp there by that time?

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

But why would the Baroness have the diary in about 1910?

[MayBea]

In 1910, Florie should be staying at the Moraine Hotel in
Highland Park, Illinois, but I've just gone through
all three districts and she's not there. She doesn't
seem to be anywhere in the States for the 1910 census.

The census was compiled in those districts on May 9th. The
Baroness was buried on April 12th, so it is possible that
Florie had traveled to Europe during this time.
QUOTE Livia jtrforums

If the Baroness had the Diary, then Florrie could have gotten it from her when she died in Paris in 1910. Then she passed through Liverpool on the way back to America and gave it to William Graham, Billy's father, as per Billy's sister Alice's claims she saw Florrie when she paid a visit around 1910-11.

[MayBea]

What documented evidence, Livia? The proof of provenance that's being held back?

I think the theory of the diary been taken from battlecrease without the owners consent is the most logical solution this would also explain the central characters involved telling a lot of lies ...

I would agree if the subject of the Diary wasn't Jack the Ripper and the characters involved would be admitting they were related, even if it's only by marriage, to probably the most notorious killer of all time.

There are people that would find that unsavory, and Anne Graham seems to me to be exactly that type.

P.S. The date that Billy Graham says he saw it--in 1943--fits nicely with Florence Maybrick's death in 1941. She could still be the grandmother that Edith was talking about.

[Livia]

Biscuit tins, some as large as 16 1/2" x 11 1/2" are
currently for sale on Ebay, scores of them. You
can see many examples by using google images,
searching on "large biscuit tins". Some of them
are in the shape of large books.

Alice Murrin died 3rd quarter of 1953 aged 92 in Surrey,
as you noted earlier.

You seem determined to believe the Graham provenance,
even when it's been demonstrated that the dates don't
fit, and there's documented evidence to the contrary.

I'll leave you to it.

[pinkmoon]

I find it hard to believe that the worker found an 11 x 8 1/2 inch diary in a cookie tin. Although there are large ones that would just barely accommodate a journal of that size, most tins don't fit that dimension.

I'm more apt to believe that the Diary was the back end of one of the three Florence Maybrick Diaries despite their being described as "small volumes". What is a "small" volume in Victorian times when Dickens was around?

I think the theory of the diary been taken from battlecrease without the owners consent is the most logical solution this would also explain the central characters involved telling a lot of lies then again once the whole situation got so out of hand and a lot of money was generated and then the police came sniffing I think the central characters had no choice but to lie.

[MayBea]

William Rubinstein also writes that the Edith Formby is believed to have received the Diary straight from Yapp.

It could have before Yapp died in 1938, according to WR, because Billy Graham didn't see it until 1943. That's provided, I'm assuming, that she returned to Liverpool from London. Perhaps she wanted to return the Diary to Liverpool and gave it to the first acquaintance she knew.

It is believed that Yapp (who died in 1938) eventually
passed the diary to William Graham’s stepmother, Edith
Formby, who was probably a family friend.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjacktheripper.de%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D1466.0%3Battach%3D1805&ei=lCI_U-OfEYvfsASZsoLwDA&usg=AFQjCNE9fv2YgWud40C0TTgU-mXXFjmDcA

[MayBea]

And speaking of timing, what about Mr Martin-Wright and his employee? How is it they knew about the diary six months before Mike Barrett took it to London?

I find it hard to believe that the worker found an 11 x 8 1/2 inch diary in a cookie tin. Although there are large ones that would just barely accommodate a journal of that size, most tins don't fit that dimension.

I'm more apt to believe that the Diary was the back end of one of the three Florence Maybrick Diaries despite their being described as "small volumes". What is a "small" volume in Victorian times when Dickens was around?

[Livia]

The two skivvys, Cadwallader and Brierley, were also in attendance at the Trial. Couldn't they be the skivvy?

Maybe Feldman and Anne picked Yapp as the friend who 'fenced' the Diary because Feldy or both knew that Yapp had stolen items.

No, not according to Billy Graham. He said, "...the one who
opened the letter..." (top of page 176, Feldman)

As I noted previously, the timing is all wrong. Yapp never
returned to Liverpool after the trial. Why would she, her
name was anathema there.

And speaking of timing, what about Mr Martin-Wright and
his employee? How is it they knew about the diary six months
before Mike Barrett took it to London? Why did Ann never
mention that her family heirloom had been flogged around
the pubs in Liverpool prior to Mike's attempt to have it
published?

Post #50

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7981&page=5&highlight=Martin-Wright

[MayBea]

...Notice Billy Graham never referred to Yapp by name, he says "the skivvy" when he refers to Mrs Formby
accompanying a servant to the trial... But if Anne Graham knew (maybe through Paul Feldman) that Yapp was known to wear some of Florence's clothes to the trial and later items of jewelry and a set of monogrammed silver spoons ended up with Yapp's descendants, then Yapp would make the perfect foil to insert into her bogus claim for the diary's provenance...

The two skivvys, Cadwallader and Brierley, were also in attendance at the Trial. Couldn't they be the skivvy?

Maybe Feldman and Anne picked Yapp as the friend who 'fenced' the Diary because Feldy or both knew that Yapp had stolen items.

[Livia]

From 1901 through the 1930s, Alice and Edward
Murrin lived at 63 Meridian St in South Hackney
(per the London electoral registers and Marjorie's
school records).



Alice Yapp left Liverpool and by 1891 she is living
in Rosebery Square in London, pregnant by another
woman's husband whose wife was still very much alive.
Her daughter was born in 1892, but Edward Murrin and
Alice Yapp did not marry until 1904. The first Mrs Murrin
died in 1898.


The servants were dismissed from Battlecrease on or
about May 23rd, soon after Florence's arrest.

Notice Billy Graham never referred to Yapp by name,
he says "the skivvy" when he refers to Mrs Formby
accompanying a servant to the trial. Yapp was not a
skivvy, but a nursemaid to the Maybrick children. Big
difference in the servant pecking order. In any case,
the timing is all wrong. It doesn't appear as if Yapp
ever returned to Liverpool. But if Anne Graham knew
(maybe through Paul Feldman) that Yapp was known
to wear some of Florence's clothes to the trial and later
items of jewelry and a set of monogrammed silver spoons
ended up with Yapp's descendants, then Yapp would
make the perfect foil to insert into her bogus claim
for the diary's provenance.

According to the newspapers of the day, all the servants
employed by the Maybricks at the time of James' death
could not find other positions. Most of them, including
Yapp, returned to their families, at least briefly. James
Grant, the gardener, later became a groundskeeper
at Aintree.

[MayBea]

Livia, I found your research on Alice Yapp here. It's very interesting that she ended up in London.
(Second post from the top #122.)

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=14290&page=13

[MayBea]

This Ancestry page says Alice lived until 1953.

http://records.ancestry.com/Margorie...?pid=163296982