Maybrick/Formby Connection?

[MayBea]

Hello, is this James' brother at a Formby wedding?

Any relation to the Formbys in the Graham clan?

Marriage: 12 Jun 1825 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancs.
Edward O Connor - Labourer, this Parish
Elizabeth Formby - (X), Spinster, this Parish
Witness: W. Maybrick; Robert Johnson
Married by Banns by: P. Bulmer Curate
Register: Marriages 1823 - 1825, Page 280, Entry 838
Source: LDS Film 93918

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/stpeter/marriages_1825e.html

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

Any relation to the Formbys in the Graham clan?

Good question.

But I understood that Mes Graham was claiming to be related to Florrie not James, or do I have that wrong?

I wish that the Grahams would produce some evidence that they are related.

Relation to the Maybrick's mght increase my interest in the diary and James.

[MayBea]

W. Maybrick must be James' grandfather, William (1815-1853?). He was parish clerk at St. Peter's, as was James' father William.

He was witness in hundreds of weddings, so it's not a big coincidence that one would be a Formby wedding.

Whether or not this Elizabeth Formby is related to Edith and Elizabeth Formby of Diary fame, I still have to check that out.

I jumped the gun but at least it shows that a lot of people would have known the Maybrick family.

[MayBea]

W. Maybrick must be James' grandfather, William. He was parish clerk at St. Peter's, as was James' father William.

He was witness in hundreds of weddings, so it's not a big coincidence that one would be a Formby wedding.

Whether or not this Elizabeth Formby is related to Edith and Elizabeth Formby of Diary fame, I still have to check that out.

I jumped the gun but at least it shows that a lot of people would have known the Maybrick family.

[MayBea]

So far, everyone has said that the alleged connection between the Grahams and Battlecrease was the friendship between Alice Yapp and Elizabeth Formby, Billy Graham's step-mother-in-law.

However, Albert Turnbull, the researcher who found this link says here that the friendship was between Alice Yapp and Edith Formby, Elizabeth's daughter. Which is the truth?

http://books.google.ca/books?id=5lDdAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=grandad's+story+formby&source=bl&ots=tWb1GdWlzQ&sig=TQyV-U3IvfI0UwbyRCf4M7poNMg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cD88U-jcLe2G2wXj34HYCw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=grandad's%20story%20formby&f=false

[Livia]

Edith Formby was only about 5 years old at the time of the
Maybrick trial.

Alice Yapp was 28.

Elizabeth Formby was about 39. On the 1891 census,
she is not listed as a laundress. She has a son aged
two, so she may have been pregnant during the trial
and unlikely to have appeared in public.

In 1891, William and Elizabeth Formby had the following
children:

Helena aged 16
William aged 14
Emma aged 12
Frederick aged 4
Edith aged 6
James aged 2

They lived at 27 Graham St in Toxteth Park.

Edith was born 13 Nov 1884, baptized at Princes Park St Paul
Fred was born 15 Nov 1886, also baptized at Princes Park St Paul

James was born 2nd Quarter of 1889, no baptism that I could find

[Livia]

James Stanley Formby was born 5 April 1889 according to his death record.

On the 1901 census, Elizabeth Formby is listed as a laundress, still living at
27 Graham Street.

[MayBea]

On the 1901 census, Elizabeth Formby is listed as a laundress, still living at 27 Graham Street.

By then Edith would be 17 so she could well have been friends with Yapp/Murrin at this time, when Elizabeth was working at the laundry where the alleged transfer of the goods took place.

But I can't find Alice Murrin in 1901. Do you know where she is?

[MayBea]

This Ancestry page says Alice lived until 1953.

http://records.ancestry.com/Margorie...?pid=163296982

[MayBea]

Livia, I found your research on Alice Yapp here. It's very interesting that she ended up in London.
(Second post from the top #122.)

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=14290&page=13

[Livia]

From 1901 through the 1930s, Alice and Edward
Murrin lived at 63 Meridian St in South Hackney
(per the London electoral registers and Marjorie's
school records).



Alice Yapp left Liverpool and by 1891 she is living
in Rosebery Square in London, pregnant by another
woman's husband whose wife was still very much alive.
Her daughter was born in 1892, but Edward Murrin and
Alice Yapp did not marry until 1904. The first Mrs Murrin
died in 1898.


The servants were dismissed from Battlecrease on or
about May 23rd, soon after Florence's arrest.

Notice Billy Graham never referred to Yapp by name,
he says "the skivvy" when he refers to Mrs Formby
accompanying a servant to the trial. Yapp was not a
skivvy, but a nursemaid to the Maybrick children. Big
difference in the servant pecking order. In any case,
the timing is all wrong. It doesn't appear as if Yapp
ever returned to Liverpool. But if Anne Graham knew
(maybe through Paul Feldman) that Yapp was known
to wear some of Florence's clothes to the trial and later
items of jewelry and a set of monogrammed silver spoons
ended up with Yapp's descendants, then Yapp would
make the perfect foil to insert into her bogus claim
for the diary's provenance.

According to the newspapers of the day, all the servants
employed by the Maybricks at the time of James' death
could not find other positions. Most of them, including
Yapp, returned to their families, at least briefly. James
Grant, the gardener, later became a groundskeeper
at Aintree.

[MayBea]

...Notice Billy Graham never referred to Yapp by name, he says "the skivvy" when he refers to Mrs Formby
accompanying a servant to the trial... But if Anne Graham knew (maybe through Paul Feldman) that Yapp was known to wear some of Florence's clothes to the trial and later items of jewelry and a set of monogrammed silver spoons ended up with Yapp's descendants, then Yapp would make the perfect foil to insert into her bogus claim for the diary's provenance...

The two skivvys, Cadwallader and Brierley, were also in attendance at the Trial. Couldn't they be the skivvy?

Maybe Feldman and Anne picked Yapp as the friend who 'fenced' the Diary because Feldy or both knew that Yapp had stolen items.

[Livia]

The two skivvys, Cadwallader and Brierley, were also in attendance at the Trial. Couldn't they be the skivvy?

Maybe Feldman and Anne picked Yapp as the friend who 'fenced' the Diary because Feldy or both knew that Yapp had stolen items.

No, not according to Billy Graham. He said, "...the one who
opened the letter..." (top of page 176, Feldman)

As I noted previously, the timing is all wrong. Yapp never
returned to Liverpool after the trial. Why would she, her
name was anathema there.

And speaking of timing, what about Mr Martin-Wright and
his employee? How is it they knew about the diary six months
before Mike Barrett took it to London? Why did Ann never
mention that her family heirloom had been flogged around
the pubs in Liverpool prior to Mike's attempt to have it
published?

Post #50

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7981&page=5&highlight=Martin-Wright

[MayBea]

And speaking of timing, what about Mr Martin-Wright and his employee? How is it they knew about the diary six months before Mike Barrett took it to London?

I find it hard to believe that the worker found an 11 x 8 1/2 inch diary in a cookie tin. Although there are large ones that would just barely accommodate a journal of that size, most tins don't fit that dimension.

I'm more apt to believe that the Diary was the back end of one of the three Florence Maybrick Diaries despite their being described as "small volumes". What is a "small" volume in Victorian times when Dickens was around?

[MayBea]

William Rubinstein also writes that the Edith Formby is believed to have received the Diary straight from Yapp.

It could have before Yapp died in 1938, according to WR, because Billy Graham didn't see it until 1943. That's provided, I'm assuming, that she returned to Liverpool from London. Perhaps she wanted to return the Diary to Liverpool and gave it to the first acquaintance she knew.

It is believed that Yapp (who died in 1938) eventually
passed the diary to William Graham’s stepmother, Edith
Formby, who was probably a family friend.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjacktheripper.de%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D1466.0%3Battach%3D1805&ei=lCI_U-OfEYvfsASZsoLwDA&usg=AFQjCNE9fv2YgWud40C0TTgU-mXXFjmDcA