Vote the Diary

[caz]

They could talk their heads off if the diary was genuine and they were telling the truth.

I was clearly thinking of a different group of people than you.

In particular I was thinking of the family, sorry for the confusion.

But how could 'the family' (Barretts or Grahams) have known if the diary was genuine, regardless of how it eventually got into our Mike's paws? They could only know if it had been a modern fake, created with their knowledge or input, then given the unconvincing Devereux provenance.

Mike has talked his head off, but steadfastly rejects the 'in the family' and Battlecrease provenances, and was totally unable to support any of his bogus forgery claims back in the day. While he may know or suspect it came out of the Maybrick house, and may believe it is genuine, neither he nor Anne would have been in any position to know.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Of course, if you're looking for a forger who knows about ion migration and has a good recipe for baking diaries, not to mention a good ink recipe, look no further than an electrician with a tin of biscuits!

Good one, MayBea.

It's a wonder fake ripper diaries haven't become a cottage industry in Liverpool.

Love,

Caz
X

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

I actually think provenance is very important.

If it came from Mrs Graham and she is a descendant it supports the diary more than if it had been found on Liverpool Dump.

If it comes out of the house it adds some support to the diary, does it not?

Neither of the above sources prove it genuine but add support.

However both can not be correct.

To my mind the greatest weakness in the diary, outside of physical testing, are the contradictory accounts from those that should know where t came from.

[MayBea]

Thank you, Dave. That's very fair to all sides. That's all I'm looking for. Fairness.

Any proven provenance would not prove a thing anyway, unless it leads to the identification of a forger, or determines if he has to be old or modern.

Provenance also stalls the debate on legitimacy, which some like to think is over, and others think needs to wait for a proven provenance.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Maybea

I'm not trying to be mean, nor I hope in the least confrontational, but I'm afraid I don't see that the dimunition of one likelihood, automatically promotes another in it's place...my understanding, (as far as it goes, and please do correct me if I'm wrong), is that both are so far totally unproven propositions, and either would have to stand or fall on it's own strengths/weaknesses

All the best

Dave

[MayBea]

...I suppose it remains possible the book could've been tucked away behind some obscure piece of panelling or something...but it does seem, (to me at least), rather less likely as time goes by...

Doesn't the Edith Formby provenance become the most likely? We do know the Diary was in the Grahams' hands and we have no better way to understand how the journal itself got there.

An unbiased, un-credited person named Albert Turnbull found this tip for Shirley Harrison, and it was corroborated by a letter Florence's mother wrote which said articles, allegedly including a diary, were stolen from Battlecrease during the Trial and put up for underground sale.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=5lDd...page&q&f=false

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=14290&page=6

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

A lot of them anyway.

[Cogidubnus]

Ay, Ay watch it!

I can't get excited about the diary, but I've a hunch, (nothing more), it may be an older forgery than many people think, and as such, it would be great if it came out of Battlecrease...and yet the owner is adamant that HE had the floorboards up before the electricians came, and there was nothing there then...he's a chap who's already co-operated well beyond reasonable bounds and has no apparent reason to lie or obfuscate...so I'm afraid it becomes increasingly unlikely...

I suppose it remains possible the book could've been tucked away behind some obscure piece of panelling or something, or could have come out of the house before the current owner bought it...but it does seem, (to me at least), rather less likely as time goes by...

Shame...I rather like the idea of a slightly dodgy scouser buying it in a pub off another slightly dodgy scouser...having known a few, (sorry Chris George - present company excepted), it's so archetypically satisfying!

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

I was clearly thinking of a different group of people than you.

In particular I was thinking of the family, sorry for the confusion.

Hi gut,if Mr Barrett stole it from someone who had stolen it wouldn't that explain all the lies.

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

I was clearly thinking of a different group of people than you.

In particular I was thinking of the family, sorry for the confusion.

[pinkmoon]

They could talk their heads off if the diary was genuine and they were telling the truth.

Hi gut,if the diary was removed from battlecrease without the owner of battlecreases permission than in the eyes of the law it is stolen as simple as that.

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

They could talk their heads off if the diary was genuine and they were telling the truth.

[pinkmoon]

In all probability the diary came out of battlecrease shortly before Mr Barrett launched it onto the unsuspecting public.In what form the diary was we do not know and when the diary was put into battlecrease we do not know.The problem we now have is because of the police investigations the people who can tell us what happend won't talk for obvious reasons.

[MayBea]

...Of course, the modern hoax conspiracy theory needs Keith's Battlecrease evidence like a hole in the head.

Of course, if you're looking for a forger who knows about ion migration and has a good recipe for baking diaries, not to mention a good ink recipe, look no further than an electrician with a tin of biscuits!

[Kaz]

Of course, the modern hoax conspiracy theory needs Keith's Battlecrease evidence like a hole in the head.

Love,

Caz
X

Can I see this evidence? I can't find this chap, 'Keith'