new info on the diary

[Kaz]

Hi Kaz,

I used to work with a guy who claimed that a member of his family was hanged for murder in the 1920's I believe, and he seemed rather proud of this bit of gruesome family history, and was not at all reluctant to discuss it!

Graham

Not everyone is the same, clearly... thankfully.

[MayBea]

Hi kaz,a simple positive d.n.a test from mrs Barrett would prove her story so why hasn't she done that?

A positive DNA test would still only be convincing evidence that the album or journal itself was in her family's possession. Would it prove the present content was there too and the Diary is therefore old?

P.S. Anne Graham would have been reacting to the possibility like her potential great grandmother. Florence Maybrick never mentioned it. Neither did Anne until she had to, and she would only be related to the Ripper through marriage and there aren't any cousins.

[pinkmoon]

Can anyone honestly say they'd be PROUD to be 'potentially' related to JTR?

I for one would go out of my way to keep that little nugget a secret.

The debunkers are happy to call anne, her dad .... feldman etc etc LIARS. I'm not so happy calling complete strangers liars on the back of no evidence that they are so...

Hi kaz,a simple positive d.n.a test from mrs Barrett would prove her story so why hasn't she done that?

[Graham]

Hi Kaz,

I used to work with a guy who claimed that a member of his family was hanged for murder in the 1920's I believe, and he seemed rather proud of this bit of gruesome family history, and was not at all reluctant to discuss it!

Graham

[Kaz]

According to this, Anne Graham was 'seemingly' the first and only one in her family to read it (likely not until the 80s when she reportedly took possession of it). Can anyone really say how one person should have reacted to it?

Can anyone honestly say they'd be PROUD to be 'potentially' related to JTR?

I for one would go out of my way to keep that little nugget a secret.

The debunkers are happy to call anne, her dad .... feldman etc etc LIARS. I'm not so happy calling complete strangers liars on the back of no evidence that they are so...

[GUT]

G'Day Dave

OK again my BAD

GUT

[Cogidubnus]

Hi GUT

But that was why I asked earlier were all matchboxes (as we now call them) tin in 88.

In which case I probably misunderstood what you were asking

Lots of matchboxes were similar to present day ones, manufactured of either very thin wood backed bt paper, or of pasteboard. They were manufactured largely by outworkers paid slave wages....vide Striking a Light by Louise Raw

All the best

Dave

[GUT]

G'Day MayBea

Sorry my Bad.

But that was why I asked earlier were all matchboxes (as we now call them) tin in 88.

GUT

[MayBea]

G'Day MayBea

But hasn't it been established that the empty tin was in the paper:
....But early in this thread the Tin was exactly what they where relying on to support the diary....

I only read empty matchbox. Not empty tin.

Tin would have to be a guess if it's not found anywhere pre-1988 and you believe in and old hoax. It might be a good guess maybe based on the cotton but it's still a guess.

It doesn't really support the Diary except against the Old Hoax theorists, and even the Modern Hoax theorists disagree with them. And empty tin would still be one of their strong points.

[GUT]

G'Day MayBea

But hasn't it been established that the empty tin was in the paper:

Originally Posted by Frank View Post
If the police held back the tin match box, empty, why did the Echo of 4 October mention it:

THE MURDER DISCOVERED

Inspector Edward Collard, of the City of London Police, was next examined. He said - At five minutes before two on Sunday last I received information at Bishopsgate Police-station that a woman had been murdered in Mitre-square. After dispatching the intelligence to headquarters and to Dr. Gordon Brown, I proceeded to the Square. I there found Dr. Sequeira, several police officers and a body of a woman lying in the north-west corner of the Square. The body was not touched until the arrival of Dr. Gordon Brown. He, however, arrived shortly after I got there. The medical gentleman examined the body, and Sergeant Jones afterwards picked up , on the left side of the deceased three small black boot buttons, a small metal button, a metal thimble and a small mustard tin containing two pawn-tickets. The body was afterwards removed to the mortuary. There was no money in her pockets. There was some tea and sugar, a piece of flannel, some soap, a cigarette case, and an empty match-box in her pocket. The portion of an apron (produced) was what deceased was wearing, and corresponds with the piece of apron which has been found in Goulston-street. Chief Detective McWilliams arrived at Mitre-square soon after the murder was discovered. He was accompanied by a number of detectives, and they made inquiries at the various lodging-houses in Spitalfields, and several men were stopped and searched in the street, but without any satisfactory result. I have a house-to-house inquiry made in the vicinity of Mitre-square (continued witness) to see if we could find any person who heard or saw anything unusual in the square that night.

You go on to say

"Diary supporters are suggesting that Jack planted the red leather cigarette case, not the matchbox. Unless you're talking about the matchbox with the cotton... They/we are suggesting the cotton was also planted."

But early in this thread the Tin was exactly what they where relying on to support the diary.

I've always wondered about the leather cigarette case. She pawned the boots, but hang onto the case, go figure. It doesn't seem that the police placed a lot of weight on either as being likely to have been left by our dear friend Jacky, unless I've missed something. [Which is always possible or even probable]

GUT

[MayBea]

Many thanks for the link, MayBea. I'm a massive fan of Bill Beadle's work, and I'd not seen that essay before.

Then Sam, don't forget to read Caz's rebuttal. I just read it and she mentions the Dickensian suggestion. Her response is different than mine because she doesn't necessarily believe the author went to America.
http://www.jamesmaybrick.org/pdf%20f...20article).pdf

[MayBea]

Thanks for that, must have been a pretty ordinary Tin then, or the police didn't place much importance on it. IE never thought it was left by Jacky as some diary supporters seem to suggest.

Hi, GUT,
Based on just the canonical five, I'd say it's one in five that she had a tin. Low odds for anyone who thinks the diary was written pre-1988 by someone who only read the newspapers, where we haven't found it mentioned yet. Empty would be a good guess if he didn't catch it in the Echo, and only read in the Times that it contained only cotton and therefore no matches. But made of tin?...

Diary supporters are suggesting that Jack planted the red leather cigarette case, not the matchbox. Unless you're talking about the matchbox with the cotton... They/we are suggesting the cotton was also planted.

P.S. You'd think a forger would highlight cotton in the matchbox with it being reported in 1888 instead of just saying Jack left clues and expecting you to find it in the Times. Then again, genius and luck know no bounds.

[pinkmoon]

I think if we wait a bit longer this tin matchbox might turn up in a Liverpool pub.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi GUT

I'd assume a pretty ordinary tin...possibly old and battered, otherwise it probably wouldn't be in the hands of an 1888 doss house dweller

All the best

Dave

[GUT]

G'Day Dave

Thanks for that, must have been a pretty ordinary Tin then, or the police didn't place much importance on it. IE never thought it was left by Jacky as some diary supporters seem to suggest.

GUT