new info on the diary

[pinkmoon]

I'm still amazed any one could be so sure about it coming out of maybricks house (under the floorboards or wherever) and NOT think it was penned by James's hand??

Hi kaz,I do think the diary was written with a view to obtain money when dear old flo was hung but when that didn't happen it was never launched onto the general public.

[Amanda Sumner]

Drug abuse seems to be a symptom of Multiple Personality Disorder rather than the cause of it.
Anyone living with someone with it could not fail to know. It affects their daily lives and without treatment could spiral out of control.
Therefore I feel that it's extremely unlikely that Maybrick had the disorder and this has only been suggested in recent times, in my opinion, to explain the reasons behind the different handwriting in the diary and his, apparently, uncontrollable urges he must have had during his murderous spree.
It is an interesting subject and, indeed, the different personalities can be very complex, even to the extent of writing, talking and dressing completely differently to the person in 'normal mode'.
If Maybrick did have the disorder, even in a mild form, he would have only written the diary when he was in 'Ripper mode' which further suggests that he only ever wrote in it when completely alone, without the risk of anyone walking in on him to notice the personality change. This means that there is a lot of forethought on when to write the diary which is strange because sufferers of the disorder say they have no real control over when it happens.
This whole theory is too far fetched for me and the only debate now should be when it was written. Is the diary an old fake or was it done more recently? Who wrote it? It is a great shame that those in the know haven't come forward and take credit for one the best hoaxes of the 20th century!

[Kaz]

Hi Amanda my dear,what we have to remember is that Mr Barrett s original plan was to use this diary to raise a few hundred quid to buy a greenhouse he never expected the whole thing to become so huge.I think the last story about the diary been in her family for years and implicating two dead people into the tale meant the chances of prosecution were virtually nil unless the person that they pinched it of complained to the police but if that person pinched it from battlecrease that couldn't happen....easy when you think about it.

I'm still amazed any one could be so sure about it coming out of maybricks house (under the floorboards or wherever) and NOT think it was penned by James's hand??

[Kaz]

G'Day

I have seen a few references to Maybrick being a drug addict, especially in relation to him possibly having some type of multiple personality disorder. The only drug I recall reading in relation to him is Arsenic.

The Journal of medicine lists under symptoms of arsenic use

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including anxiety (up to 30%), depression (up to 20%), agitation (up to 5%), and confusion (up to 5%) have been reported.

So unless there is some other drug use I've missed, arsenic doesn't seem to lead to that type of psychiatric problem.

Grateful for any help.

GUT

Humans can be born with a MPD or psychopathic, it doesn't have to be bought on through drug misuse.

An arsenic habit certainly would HELP.

[pinkmoon]

Pinkmoon: According to his wife, they already had ownership but if they knew of it's dubious beginnings, for example that it was a forgery or had been stolen from somewhere, then they had to come up with some story to how they had got it. If it was the genuine article and it had been in Ms Grahams possession for years then why did they not say so? The reason they did not say so, in my opinion, was because, if it was stolen, it did not belong to them and if it was a forgery they did not want to be implicated. Realising that things were not going quite as straight forward as they had hoped and too many questions were being asked they claimed ownership again by saying that it actually belonged to her with the mind boggling information that Ms Graham was descended from Mrs Maybrick herself! A fact that cannot be established but seems very unlikely to me.
Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

Hi Amanda my dear,what we have to remember is that Mr Barrett s original plan was to use this diary to raise a few hundred quid to buy a greenhouse he never expected the whole thing to become so huge.I think the last story about the diary been in her family for years and implicating two dead people into the tale meant the chances of prosecution were virtually nil unless the person that they pinched it of complained to the police but if that person pinched it from battlecrease that couldn't happen....easy when you think about it.

[GUT]

G'Day

I have seen a few references to Maybrick being a drug addict, especially in relation to him possibly having some type of multiple personality disorder. The only drug I recall reading in relation to him is Arsenic.

The Journal of medicine lists under symptoms of arsenic use

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including anxiety (up to 30%), depression (up to 20%), agitation (up to 5%), and confusion (up to 5%) have been reported.

So unless there is some other drug use I've missed, arsenic doesn't seem to lead to that type of psychiatric problem.

Grateful for any help.

GUT

[Kaz]

Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

Sorry, I haven't read feldmans book for some time but I seem to remember the will being alittle suspect, the manner in which it was written didn't suggest it was written by a sick, weak man and its reference to his child is something james wouldn't have used. I think the family had good reason to make a fraudulent one.

in the book some comparisons of Jame's letter formation were analysed and looked to be 'similar'. Theres a signature from James Maybrick when he was aboard a boat and he used the characteristic squiggle underneath. Again, I've not read the book for awhile now so alittle sketchy on the matters.

[Amanda Sumner]

Exactly, Kaz. Here is a Casebook Archive image of Peter Kurten's multiple hands compared to the Will, the Diary, and From Hell. There is a clearer image of it somewhere else on this site. Suffice to say, you can see why the handwriting argument is far from convincing. Just as handwriting evidence wouldn't prove the Diary genuine, it doesn't prove it false when you're talking about a serial killer.

These are the writings of one man? This is very interesting. To look at them, the hands all seem very different. Would an expert in the field, though, recognise that the hand writings were all penned by the same person?

[Amanda Sumner]

Pinkmoon: According to his wife, they already had ownership but if they knew of it's dubious beginnings, for example that it was a forgery or had been stolen from somewhere, then they had to come up with some story to how they had got it. If it was the genuine article and it had been in Ms Grahams possession for years then why did they not say so? The reason they did not say so, in my opinion, was because, if it was stolen, it did not belong to them and if it was a forgery they did not want to be implicated. Realising that things were not going quite as straight forward as they had hoped and too many questions were being asked they claimed ownership again by saying that it actually belonged to her with the mind boggling information that Ms Graham was descended from Mrs Maybrick herself! A fact that cannot be established but seems very unlikely to me.
Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

[MayBea]

Is it not feasible he suffered from a multiple personality disorder? ...

Exactly, Kaz. Here is a Casebook Archive image of Peter Kurten's multiple hands compared to the Will, the Diary, and From Hell. There is a clearer image of it somewhere else on this site. Suffice to say, you can see why the handwriting argument is far from convincing. Just as handwriting evidence wouldn't prove the Diary genuine, it doesn't prove it false when you're talking about a serial killer.

[pinkmoon]

Well, I've been reading up more about the diary and apparently the handwriting is not consistent with the handwriting on Maybrick's will.
So, Maybrick did NOT write it, according to the experts.
This means that it is definitely a forgery unless he had suddenly changed his handwriting, which is extremely unlikely, if not impossible.
Maybe Ms Graham is telling the truth that she had it for years, her father may well have passed it down to her.
Maybe he was the forger? Or his father before him?
As far as the tin matchbox goes it is possible that it had been mentioned in reports at the time, or it was just an educated guess on the part of the diarist. It's all been a money making scam, in my opinion,that did not turn out quite as they had hoped. Probably why the watch turned up a short time later....
What motive would the real JtR have had for keeping a diary? Hardly to make money for himself.
From what I've read convinces me that this is a fraud. It could have been written many years ago or as recent as 1988 or later.
The handwriting analysis has convinced me more than anything that this is the work of a fraudster.
Mr Barrett and his lies was a means to get the diary out into the public domain. He would have been aware of the diary if it had been in his wife's possession for years.
The only other alternative is that Mr Barrett had been given it, and seeing it's potential, his wife claimed ownership to make money out of it.
Whatever the truth is about the diary, genuine it is not...

Hi Amanda my dear,could the lies be because the diary was stolen from someone for Mr Barrett to profit he would have to have ownership.

[Kaz]

Well, I've been reading up more about the diary and apparently the handwriting is not consistent with the handwriting on Maybrick's will.
So, Maybrick did NOT write it, according to the experts.
This means that it is definitely a forgery unless he had suddenly changed his handwriting, which is extremely unlikely, if not impossible.

Is it not feasible he suffered from a multiple personality disorder? The will is suspect anyway, we simply don't have MUCH of james maybricks handwriting.

[Amanda Sumner]

Well, I've been reading up more about the diary and apparently the handwriting is not consistent with the handwriting on Maybrick's will.
So, Maybrick did NOT write it, according to the experts.
This means that it is definitely a forgery unless he had suddenly changed his handwriting, which is extremely unlikely, if not impossible.
Maybe Ms Graham is telling the truth that she had it for years, her father may well have passed it down to her.
Maybe he was the forger? Or his father before him?
As far as the tin matchbox goes it is possible that it had been mentioned in reports at the time, or it was just an educated guess on the part of the diarist. It's all been a money making scam, in my opinion,that did not turn out quite as they had hoped. Probably why the watch turned up a short time later....
What motive would the real JtR have had for keeping a diary? Hardly to make money for himself.
From what I've read convinces me that this is a fraud. It could have been written many years ago or as recent as 1988 or later.
The handwriting analysis has convinced me more than anything that this is the work of a fraudster.
Mr Barrett and his lies was a means to get the diary out into the public domain. He would have been aware of the diary if it had been in his wife's possession for years.
The only other alternative is that Mr Barrett had been given it, and seeing it's potential, his wife claimed ownership to make money out of it.
Whatever the truth is about the diary, genuine it is not...

[pinkmoon]

A positive DNA test would still only be convincing evidence that the album or journal itself was in her family's possession. Would it prove the present content was there too and the Diary is therefore old?

P.S. Anne Graham would have been reacting to the possibility like her potential great grandmother. Florence Maybrick never mentioned it. Neither did Anne until she had to, and she would only be related to the Ripper through marriage and there aren't any cousins.

Evening ,If mrs Barrett could prove she was a descendent of Mrs Maybrick then it would give the diary a much greater credibility .I have not got a problem with the diary itself I have got a problem with the lies told about how it appeared after all those years.I think Maybrick makes a very good suspect his drug addiction could explain the killers boldness but untill we can prove its history I will have to remain very sceptical.Having met Mr Barrett quite a few times over the years I came to the conclusion he is not capable of forging anything also nobody would get him involved in any sort of conspiracy or scam.

[Kaz]

Hi kaz,a simple positive d.n.a test from mrs Barrett would prove her story so why hasn't she done that?

I don't know, I've never met her to ask.

Why doesn't she want any of the money raised from the diary?

lots of questions and the problem is HOW to find the answers?