new info on the diary

[caz]

Unless you can suggest an alternative reason why the author would have placed the adjective after the verb, it only bolsters my belief that s/he was copying the wording of the police inventory.

To place the adjective after the noun in any other context is a thing very unusual. Maybe the Diary was written by Hercule Poirot?

Not remotely unusual when writing doggerel though, Chris. And as you can see from the line in context below, the diary author is trying out his rotten rhymes in rough first, with the verb 'was' implied, not written until the second, finished version, making perfect sense of the adjective appearing after the noun. He does the same thing with (the) first whore (was) no good:

Sir Jim,
tin match box empty
cigarette case (crossed out)
make haste (crossed out)
my shiny knife (crossed out)
the whores knife (crossed out)
first whore no good

One whore no good
decided Sir Jim strike another.
I showed no fright and indeed no light,
damn it, the tin box was empty

I very much doubt he copied 1 Whore, no good from anywhere.

Love,

Caz
X

[James_J]

Great explanation Caz.

[caz]

In reply to Caz; Firstly thank you for the response!

Your raise some very interesting questions. I gather that you presume the Diary was an old forgery and are perhaps insinuating that police officials at the time may have spread private details of the case? However, if these details were as commonly known as you suggest, they would have undoubtedly appeared in the countless books, memoirs, and dissertations on the Ripper released prior to 1987.

Hi James,

I have absolutely no doubt that certain inside details would have been shared with trusted friends and associates beyond the force. Such things happen. I am not, however, suggesting for one moment that they were 'commonly' known prior to 1987. It only needed one wag with inside knowledge to come up with the idea of using it for a ripper 'confession'. Too many people with the same knowledge and there would have been a lot less fun in such a venture.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

Swanson

Hello James. Thanks.

Makes one wonder how much the public knew about Swanson and his role in the case?

Cheers.
LC

[bigjon]

In response to the final comment, made by Magpie, do you care to elaborate ? Graphology has been included and exhibited in numerous legal proceedings and professional consultancies. While I do accept that there is debate concerning the accuracy of graphology, the inclusion of yet another professional opinion, in favor of the diary, must be included.

Care to name one?

Forensic document examination is a science that is used in legal proceedings, but you will by hard pressed to find a conviction based solely on it. Graphology is akin to fortune telling and is not supported by scientific evidence.

You will also be hard pressed to find a Forensic Document Examiner state categorically that a piece of writing is conclusive proof - they will normally state that it is their opinion and that it is likely, but not definite.

[lynn cates]

Friday

Hello (again) James.

"I cannot understand how a destitute prostitute, who had just pawned her boyfriend's boots that very morning . . ."

Of course, the date on the "Kelly" ticket read Friday night.

Cheers.
LC

[Graham]

Thank you for you warm welcome!

Your questions is perfectly reasonable and welcome! Undoubtedly this a case of confusion on behalf of the author. It is important to remember that the Ripper/Author could not have had any insight into the specific co-ordination of the police investigation. He was privy to the same information as the general public and had to surmise the actions of Scotland Yard, and City of London forces, based solely on newspaper and tabloid coverage. Inspector Abberline coordinated the ground level inquiries and therefore was perceived as heading the Ripper investigation. The contemporary newspapers most certainly gave him top billing.



Best Regards, James.

Hi JamesJ,

Nice to see some new interest in the 'Diary' - pity you weren't posting a few years ago, when there were some real fireworks popping off!

Anyway - it's important also to remember that James Maybrick's brother, Michael Maybrick a.k.a. Stephen Adams the highly popular composer, was a high-ranking Freemason, as were many high-ranking police officers at the time. Pure supposition on my part, of course, but if the 'Diary' is an old forgery, then it is perhaps not beyond the realms of possibility that Michael Maybrick had an input, and was able to provide otherwise 'secret' (or unpublished) details. Just a thought.

Graham

[caz]

If I may note one other point related to the murder of Catharine Eddowe's. The report containing Catharine Eddowe's possessions named a "Red Leather Cigarette Case." I cannot understand how a destitute prostitute, who had just pawned her boyfriend's boots that very morning, would own a leather cigarette case with metal fittings.

According to Mrs Hogg, a Virginia brothel-keeper, who testified at Florence Maybrick's trial, James frequented her brothel when he arrived in the USA. Mrs Hogg stated that he kept his arsenic "in a cigarette case."

Kind regards, James.

Hi James,

Well the diary author certainly associates the matchbox with the cigarette case when trying out his doggerel, which makes perfect sense if he sees them both as belonging to Sir Jim. He also makes a pun on the word 'strike', as in striking another whore or another match, and the matches would have been struck to light the cigarettes or to light the murder scene (if there were any left).

The poetry may be awful, but there's a lot going on in just a few short lines.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hello (again) James.

"I cannot understand how a destitute prostitute, who had just pawned her boyfriend's boots that very morning . . ."

Of course, the date on the "Kelly" ticket read Friday night.

Cheers.
LC

How does a 'date' read Friday 'night', Lynn?

Could the boots have been pawned very late on Friday night, or very early on Saturday morning, resulting in Friday's date being put on the ticket when it was close enough not to make any difference?

Love,

Caz
X

[James_J]

I acknowledge and accept that graphology is not a dependable form of evidence. The graphologist who examined the Diary in 1992 was Hannah Koren. She is a forensic document analyst for a security department of the Israeli Government and has presented evidence in many fraud trials throughout Europe. I included her professional opinion of the Diary due to her extensive experience with document related cases and inquiries.

Best Regards, James

[James_J]

I appreciate your responses! The poetry of the Diary is certainly intriguing and I often wonder why a forger would have chosen rhyme & poetry as a means of communicating highly significant information, [after the considerable time & effort he/she MUST have spent accumulating the necessary documentation.]

The association to Michael Maybrick and the Freemasons is very interesting! However, I speculate that the role of the Freemasons may have been focused on the aftermath and suppression of information relating Maybrick to the crimes. I am continuing to research these areas and prefer to responsibly evaluate the evidence before posting on these boards.

I thank you for all of your suggestions and shall post again with further ideas once my research has caught up with the progression of this thread! Feel free to post further questions and responses to any of the issues I have raised during my discourse!

Best Regards, James.

[pinkmoon]

Evening everyone trust you are all well,I think caz will agree with some of what I'm about to post Mr Barrett is not capable of forging anything and there is no one stupid enough to involve him in any deception.It looks quite obvious that Mr Barrett got his hands on the diary via the pub.As we well know Mr Barrett was shifting a fair amount of booze would he sacrifice his drinking money to buy or forge a diary I doubt it so how did he get his hands on it......

[Chris]

Not remotely unusual when writing doggerel though, Chris. And as you can see from the line in context below, the diary author is trying out his rotten rhymes in rough first, with the verb 'was' implied, not written until the second, finished version, making perfect sense of the adjective appearing after the noun. He does the same thing with (the) first whore (was) no good:

Ah, Caz, it's almost like old times, isn't it?

Hugs and kisses

Chris
XXXXXXXXXX

[Kaz]

Evening everyone trust you are all well,I think caz will agree with some of what I'm about to post Mr Barrett is not capable of forging anything and there is no one stupid enough to involve him in any deception.It looks quite obvious that Mr Barrett got his hands on the diary via the pub.As we well know Mr Barrett was shifting a fair amount of booze would he sacrifice his drinking money to buy or forge a diary I doubt it so how did he get his hands on it......

I thought your conclusion was he purchased it from the electricians who worked on maybricks house?

[Scott Nelson]

He probably won it in a card game with the electricians who brought it into the pub.