new info on the diary

[MayBea]

Is it not feasible he suffered from a multiple personality disorder? ...

Exactly, Kaz. Here is a Casebook Archive image of Peter Kurten's multiple hands compared to the Will, the Diary, and From Hell. There is a clearer image of it somewhere else on this site. Suffice to say, you can see why the handwriting argument is far from convincing. Just as handwriting evidence wouldn't prove the Diary genuine, it doesn't prove it false when you're talking about a serial killer.

[Amanda Sumner]

Pinkmoon: According to his wife, they already had ownership but if they knew of it's dubious beginnings, for example that it was a forgery or had been stolen from somewhere, then they had to come up with some story to how they had got it. If it was the genuine article and it had been in Ms Grahams possession for years then why did they not say so? The reason they did not say so, in my opinion, was because, if it was stolen, it did not belong to them and if it was a forgery they did not want to be implicated. Realising that things were not going quite as straight forward as they had hoped and too many questions were being asked they claimed ownership again by saying that it actually belonged to her with the mind boggling information that Ms Graham was descended from Mrs Maybrick herself! A fact that cannot be established but seems very unlikely to me.
Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

[Amanda Sumner]

Exactly, Kaz. Here is a Casebook Archive image of Peter Kurten's multiple hands compared to the Will, the Diary, and From Hell. There is a clearer image of it somewhere else on this site. Suffice to say, you can see why the handwriting argument is far from convincing. Just as handwriting evidence wouldn't prove the Diary genuine, it doesn't prove it false when you're talking about a serial killer.

These are the writings of one man? This is very interesting. To look at them, the hands all seem very different. Would an expert in the field, though, recognise that the hand writings were all penned by the same person?

[Kaz]

Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

Sorry, I haven't read feldmans book for some time but I seem to remember the will being alittle suspect, the manner in which it was written didn't suggest it was written by a sick, weak man and its reference to his child is something james wouldn't have used. I think the family had good reason to make a fraudulent one.

in the book some comparisons of Jame's letter formation were analysed and looked to be 'similar'. Theres a signature from James Maybrick when he was aboard a boat and he used the characteristic squiggle underneath. Again, I've not read the book for awhile now so alittle sketchy on the matters.

[GUT]

G'Day

I have seen a few references to Maybrick being a drug addict, especially in relation to him possibly having some type of multiple personality disorder. The only drug I recall reading in relation to him is Arsenic.

The Journal of medicine lists under symptoms of arsenic use

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including anxiety (up to 30%), depression (up to 20%), agitation (up to 5%), and confusion (up to 5%) have been reported.

So unless there is some other drug use I've missed, arsenic doesn't seem to lead to that type of psychiatric problem.

Grateful for any help.

GUT

[pinkmoon]

Pinkmoon: According to his wife, they already had ownership but if they knew of it's dubious beginnings, for example that it was a forgery or had been stolen from somewhere, then they had to come up with some story to how they had got it. If it was the genuine article and it had been in Ms Grahams possession for years then why did they not say so? The reason they did not say so, in my opinion, was because, if it was stolen, it did not belong to them and if it was a forgery they did not want to be implicated. Realising that things were not going quite as straight forward as they had hoped and too many questions were being asked they claimed ownership again by saying that it actually belonged to her with the mind boggling information that Ms Graham was descended from Mrs Maybrick herself! A fact that cannot be established but seems very unlikely to me.
Kaz: To suggest that the will is suspect is odd. Why is it? It was witnessed by two people that knew him well, so presumably they recognised his hand and witnessed his signature. Copies were subsequently made that had slight changes of spelling and errors but I don't think there is any real doubt about the original.
The suggestion that Maybrick may have had a multiple personality disorder, would that not have been mentioned in the trial? It is not unfeasible to suggest that he did, considering his drug abuse, but even if that caused him to change his writing there would have been certain clues in the way he wrote certain letters. It's almost impossible to disguise one's writing completely apparently, or at least that is what I have read. More to the point, why would he need to feel the compunction? Most people who have mental disorders write erratically as their emotions take over them but the writing in the diary stays fairly consistent.
These are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm certainly no expert but I have read much on the arguments for and against and these are just my opinions based on what I have read. There are compelling arguments for the diary to be genuine, and it would be wonderful if it was, but I think that it's dubious beginnings and the handwriting have definitely persuaded me for the reasons I have stated.

Hi Amanda my dear,what we have to remember is that Mr Barrett s original plan was to use this diary to raise a few hundred quid to buy a greenhouse he never expected the whole thing to become so huge.I think the last story about the diary been in her family for years and implicating two dead people into the tale meant the chances of prosecution were virtually nil unless the person that they pinched it of complained to the police but if that person pinched it from battlecrease that couldn't happen....easy when you think about it.

[Kaz]

G'Day

I have seen a few references to Maybrick being a drug addict, especially in relation to him possibly having some type of multiple personality disorder. The only drug I recall reading in relation to him is Arsenic.

The Journal of medicine lists under symptoms of arsenic use

Psychiatric

Psychiatric side effects including anxiety (up to 30%), depression (up to 20%), agitation (up to 5%), and confusion (up to 5%) have been reported.

So unless there is some other drug use I've missed, arsenic doesn't seem to lead to that type of psychiatric problem.

Grateful for any help.

GUT

Humans can be born with a MPD or psychopathic, it doesn't have to be bought on through drug misuse.

An arsenic habit certainly would HELP.

[Kaz]

Hi Amanda my dear,what we have to remember is that Mr Barrett s original plan was to use this diary to raise a few hundred quid to buy a greenhouse he never expected the whole thing to become so huge.I think the last story about the diary been in her family for years and implicating two dead people into the tale meant the chances of prosecution were virtually nil unless the person that they pinched it of complained to the police but if that person pinched it from battlecrease that couldn't happen....easy when you think about it.

I'm still amazed any one could be so sure about it coming out of maybricks house (under the floorboards or wherever) and NOT think it was penned by James's hand??

[Amanda Sumner]

Drug abuse seems to be a symptom of Multiple Personality Disorder rather than the cause of it.
Anyone living with someone with it could not fail to know. It affects their daily lives and without treatment could spiral out of control.
Therefore I feel that it's extremely unlikely that Maybrick had the disorder and this has only been suggested in recent times, in my opinion, to explain the reasons behind the different handwriting in the diary and his, apparently, uncontrollable urges he must have had during his murderous spree.
It is an interesting subject and, indeed, the different personalities can be very complex, even to the extent of writing, talking and dressing completely differently to the person in 'normal mode'.
If Maybrick did have the disorder, even in a mild form, he would have only written the diary when he was in 'Ripper mode' which further suggests that he only ever wrote in it when completely alone, without the risk of anyone walking in on him to notice the personality change. This means that there is a lot of forethought on when to write the diary which is strange because sufferers of the disorder say they have no real control over when it happens.
This whole theory is too far fetched for me and the only debate now should be when it was written. Is the diary an old fake or was it done more recently? Who wrote it? It is a great shame that those in the know haven't come forward and take credit for one the best hoaxes of the 20th century!

[pinkmoon]

I'm still amazed any one could be so sure about it coming out of maybricks house (under the floorboards or wherever) and NOT think it was penned by James's hand??

Hi kaz,I do think the diary was written with a view to obtain money when dear old flo was hung but when that didn't happen it was never launched onto the general public.

[Amanda Sumner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/dissociative_disorders/hic_dissociative_identity_disorder_multiple_personality_disorder.aspx

[Kaz]

Hi kaz,I do think the diary was written with a view to obtain money when dear old flo was hung but when that didn't happen it was never launched onto the general public.

No, doesn't seem plausible to me, it seems far more plausible that James Maybrick was Jack the ripper and wrote down his thoughts in something to hand and then hid it somewhere in battlecrease.

[GUT]

G'Day KAZ

Humans can be born with a MPD or psychopathic, it doesn't have to be bought on through drug misuse.

My point exactly, his arsenic use did not contribute to ANY MPD he may or may not have had.

GUT

[GUT]

G'Day Amanda

Drug abuse seems to be a symptom of Multiple Personality Disorder rather than the cause of it.
Anyone living with someone with it could not fail to know. It affects their daily lives and without treatment could spiral out of control.
Therefore I feel that it's extremely unlikely that Maybrick had the disorder and this has only been suggested in recent times, in my opinion, to explain the reasons behind the different handwriting in the diary and his, apparently, uncontrollable urges he must have had during his murderous spree.

If he had MPD or was Psychotic it was absolute negligence, indeed Professional Misconduct (which in 1888, or today could see a Barrister Struck Off) not to raise it at Mrs M's trial for murder. Which to me says he didn't have MPD [if it exists] and wasn't psychotic.

Doesn't mean he COULDN'T have been Jacky, just makes it less likely in my opinion.


GUT

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello Gut,
The point I'm making is that the handwriting is crucial to establish who wrote the diary. Here we have a document of a will, witnessed to have been written by Maybrick himself by two friends of his, no less, but experts say it does not match the writing in the diary. Even without the expert's opinion why would the Ripper change his style of handwriting just to put entries in a diary? The pro-group say it maybe because he might have had MPD, in which case, while he was the Ripper, his style of writing changed. It rather stretches the imagination, in my opinion, and a much more plausible explanation is that he did not write the will. The problem with that is that it was witnessed by two of his friends so any suggestion of the will being dodgy has to have us believe that the family fraudulently wrote a will in his name and these two friends were in on it too. The subject of the will must have been mentioned in the trial.
Maybrick did not have MPD. There is nothing documented to say that he ever had it. He did have violent outbursts and his health, it was noted, suffered because of his drug abuse of arsenic and strychnine.
So why the change in handwriting?
Maybrick did not write it.

The truth is with those that brought the diary into the public domain with it's air of mystery and lies.

The only questions left are who wrote it? And when? IMO.