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Why I find the diary implausible

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  • #61
    If anyone thinks that the diary's failure to mention Sir Jim's illegitimate brood points to post-1987 hoaxers who didn't know their facts, may I gently remind them that Bernard Ryan's Poisoned Life of Mrs Maybrick, first published in 1977, and in Penguin Books in 1989, has been proposed by modern hoax conspiracy theorists as a (if not the) major source of the Maybrick info that appears in the diary.

    However, on page 28 of my Penguin edition, Ryan writes that by 1887:

    ...Florence Maybrick had learned of her husband's mistress. She learned that he was the father of three children born out of wedlock before his marriage, and that he had sired two more children by the same woman since he and Florence had been married.

    ...Somewhere in Liverpool, she now knew, there was a woman who loved her pompous husband as much as she did, a woman who depended on him and had been willing to continue to bear his children after he had married another.

    On page 96, there is the following reference to brothers Michael and Edwin breaking the seal on James's will and reading it:

    It was written in James's rather shaky hand on blue paper.

    And yet this did not prompt the diary author to access James's shaky handwriting in order to copy it.

    The inference is pretty clear: either Ryan's book was not consulted by the diary author or a deliberate decision was taken not to mention Maybrick's second family and not to make the handwriting look like his.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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    • #62
      Hi Caz,

      What do you consider a modern hoax? I believe the hoax was done sometime after 1960. Would that be modern in your eyes? I have no idea where the line is, or actually, even if it matters.

      Mike
      huh?

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      • #63
        Hi GM,

        Most modern hoax theorists don't believe the diary could have been written before 1987 at the earliest, so that's a line they have drawn for themselves. I believe it was written earlier than that, which would make it an 'old' hoax I suppose, but how much earlier I wouldn't like to guess. The scientists can't put it any later than the 1960s, which seems reasonable enough to me unless any evidence emerges to suggest otherwise.

        Love,

        Caz
        X
        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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        • #64
          This man produced five children out of wedlock, two of them AFTER his marriage, and he had the check to call his wife a whore? What a rat!

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Limehouse View Post
            This man produced five children out of wedlock, two of them AFTER his marriage, and he had the check to call his wife a whore? What a rat!
            Indeed.

            We need to find out more about the character of James Maybrick!

            where to begin

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Kaz View Post
              Indeed.

              We need to find out more about the character of James Maybrick!

              where to begin
              We need to find out where the diary actually came from first before researching maybrick .It's like putting the cart before the horse.
              Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

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              • #67
                Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                We need to find out where the diary actually came from first before researching maybrick .It's like putting the cart before the horse.


                The provenance has been an ongoing theme since the get go, its been the sole reason for many to debunk the diary and JM as a suspect.

                Jame's movements and character is what needs digging around in.

                Copies of his handwriting may go some way in helping, his 'real' handwriting!

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                • #68
                  If that diary had turned up with the last story of it been from Anne barretts family in the first place there wouldn't have been a problem.Not got a problem with maybrick been the ripper not got problem with maybrick writing diary it's just the fact when it was launched on us the story kept changing where it came from.The last story as told in paul Feldmans book conveniently kills of any chance of any one getting arrested and charged with fraud or possibly going to prison .I started a thread when I first came on hear asking if any one knew how far the police investigation got regarding diary no one has posted back.Like I keep saying if you have something in your possession and you can't say where it has come from or you have to lie where it's come from then it is dodgy bent corrupt nicked stolen pinched fabricated .I take no pleasure writing like this I didn't join case book to cause trouble or upset any one but I think to many people have made to much money out of this diary .It should never have been published before it could be authenticated.
                  Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                    If that diary had turned up with the last story of it been from Anne barretts family in the first place there wouldn't have been a problem.Not got a problem with maybrick been the ripper not got problem with maybrick writing diary it's just the fact when it was launched on us the story kept changing where it came from.The last story as told in paul Feldmans book conveniently kills of any chance of any one getting arrested and charged with fraud or possibly going to prison .I started a thread when I first came on hear asking if any one knew how far the police investigation got regarding diary no one has posted back.Like I keep saying if you have something in your possession and you can't say where it has come from or you have to lie where it's come from then it is dodgy bent corrupt nicked stolen pinched fabricated .I take no pleasure writing like this I didn't join case book to cause trouble or upset any one but I think to many people have made to much money out of this diary .It should never have been published before it could be authenticated.

                    How do you know how much money has been made? And why does that sway your judgement anyway?

                    Seems to me you're willing to call complete strangers liars and frauds on the back of....nothing.

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                    • #70
                      It should never have been published before it could be authenticated.

                      In which case, of course, it would probably never have been published.

                      I don't know whether you were engaged in Ripper studies when the "Diary" first emerged, but the interest in it was intense.

                      What did it contain, what was it like, whom did it name as "Jack"? The prospect of a genuine diary, like the opening of the official files in the 70s, had the potential to change the whole subject.

                      As I recall several of the then leading authors were so eager to see the alleged "diary" in advance that they signed "gagging"/confidentiality agreements - not to release anything about what they saw.

                      I think I bought my copy of the book on the day of publication. (I took the view that it was a probable forgery as soon as I read that 17 opening pages of the album were missing, and that it was written in such a strange volume. My perusal of the text did not change my view - there was nothing new - nothing revelatory to be found. It read like a novel written from exisiting sources.)

                      So I think non-publication was not an option. But I agree, authentication - what in the art world is known as "provenance" - was and remains essential.

                      Until that happens, I ignore the "diary" as an assumed (by me) forgery.

                      Phil

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Phil H View Post
                        [B]
                        Until that happens, I ignore the "diary" as an assumed (by me) forgery.

                        Phil
                        I've said this before, IF anne had come forward with the diary with her dad what would your view be?

                        I find it all to easy to write off something this fascinating and compelling on the back of 'who' happened to air it!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kaz View Post
                          How do you know how much money has been made? And why does that sway your judgement anyway?

                          Seems to me you're willing to call complete strangers liars and frauds on the back of....nothing.
                          Hi kaz,the books regarding the diary have sold very well people have made a lot of money no doubt about that.Anybody with half a brain cell who had a hand written diary in a victorian book which confesses to been jack the ripper would think this is going to worth a fortune let's make some money I would so would you nothing wrong with that.Would I risk destroying its credibility by lying where it had cone from the answer to that is no .I find nothing wrong in authors been rewarded for their hard work it's just when the starting thread of a discovery like this diary is based on a lie.p.s I love you xxxxxx
                          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Kaz View Post
                            I've said this before, IF anne had come forward with the diary with her dad what would your view be?

                            I find it all to easy to write off something this fascinating and compelling on the back of 'who' happened to air it!
                            I would take it very seriously if this had happend.The part of maybrick been the ripper that I like is his arsenic addiction this would explain the killers boldness.
                            Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                              I would take it very seriously if this had happend.The part of maybrick been the ripper that I like is his arsenic addiction this would explain the killers boldness.

                              But it DIDN'T happen....


                              So, throw the diary in the bin, yea?

                              Seems to me theres many who boo hoo the diary simply because Mike showed up with the diary and not Anne.....

                              Sorry, thats not enough of a reason for me.


                              The diary may seem implausible but to date NOTHING proves it to be so.
                              Last edited by Kaz; 08-30-2013, 07:12 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Kaz View Post
                                But it DIDN'T happen....


                                So, throw the diary in the bin, yea?

                                Seems to me theres many who boo hoo the diary simply because Mike showed up with the diary and not Anne.....

                                Sorry, thats not enough of a reason for me.


                                The diary may seem implausible but to date NOTHING proves it to be so.
                                My favourite suspect is druitt purely because of my ancestors who lived in Whitechapel at time of murders told the story of the killer drowning himself.I know deep down that druitt probley wasn't the ripper in fact all of the so called suspects we have been presented with over the years are all probley innocent.Please keep an open mind on this case and you will get more enjoyment out of it
                                Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

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