Maybrick watch in higher resolution

[Scott Nelson]

Simon Wood was no longer a lone voice howling at the moon and - whilst I believe he still occasionally gets out there and works the old larynx on high hills at midnight - he is to be congratulated for spotting what turned out to be evident in the record from at very least Farson (1972) onwards (if not Lacassagne had he or she had an Apple iPhone SE 2020 in 1899).

I'm not sure if Simon Wood still supports the initials on the wall, if he ever did at all. As RJ Palmer has pointed out, the initials referred to in the Diary could have been anywhere, not just in Kelly's room.

And I still don't see any initials on the wall.

[Iconoclast]

I'm not sure if Simon Wood still supports the initials on the wall, if he ever did at all. As RJ Palmer has pointed out, the initials referred to in the Diary could have been anywhere, not just in Kelly's room.

And I still don't see any initials on the wall.

Yes, Scott, Simon was famously the first person to ever identify those letters on Kelly's wall and he could see them no problem when they didn't mean anything.

Miraculously, when they meant too much, he could no longer see them again.

That happens, I guess.

Ike

[erobitha]

Arthur Leigh Allen, the Zodiac suspect, owned and wore a Zodiac brandwatch, that was the source behind this fabrication.



The Baron

Insightful as ever.

I'm more intrigued by your choice of moniker on this forum. It is odd seeing an obscure Magna reference. What makes Baron Humbert von Gikkingen so interesting to you?

[caz]

My point is why assume the killer would give himself any moniker? Even if he did not write the "Dear Boss" letter, there's no reason to believe he identified himself as "Jack".

In the diary, 'Sir Jim' very clearly identifies himself as "Jack", and signs off as 'Jack the Ripper', so we would expect whoever made the scratches in the watch to do likewise, whichever came first.

I am curious as to why the engraver only picked the five victims. As far as I'm aware, the contemporary press had the Ripper's tally as high as nine or eleven. Therefore, you'd expect an old hoax to reflect that. Wasn't the "canonical five" a relatively modern concept? Unless, of course, the Ripper did indeed only murder those five but I find there's enough evidence to dispute that.

Again, this matches the number and the initials of the Whitechapel victims claimed by 'Sir Jim' in the diary. Obviously the engraver could not include the initials of any victim whose name would not have been known to her killer.

When the engravings were first deciphered, and the five sets of initials identified, the diary had yet to be published, with the details of which victims were identifiable from the text, or which might be conspicuous by their absence from it. So there were several ways in which a modern hoaxer could have made errors when choosing which initials to engrave or not to engrave. Omissions would have been less problematic, but one inclusion too many could have been instantly fatal.

[FISHY1118]

The watch is shear nonsense , the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr . Really its just pathetic.

Just for the record, i calll it as i see it .

[erobitha]

The watch is shear nonsense , the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr . Really its just pathetic.

Just for the record, i calll it as i see it .

Thanks for that informed and qualified opinion.

We all have those. Have any facts to dispute it?

[Iconoclast]

The watch is shear nonsense , the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr . Really its just pathetic.

Just for the record, i calll it as i see it .

Well here we go again with another reason why Ally asked the question in 2013 (and I paraphrase) "What's the point of the Casebook?".

Over on the thread itself, we have Wickerman smirking because he's noticed MrBarnett's new candidate for Jack has the initials 'JM' - just like on Kelly's wall. No, seriously, the smirking was actually visceral. It's very obvious he thought he was being incredibly clever, and hundreds of readers will have thought he was being clever because none of them know which letters are mooted to be on Kelly's wall.

And here we have Fishy1118 poisoning the well with misinformed opinion and unbelievably unrestrained assumption. Let me ask you Fishy1118, When you were a killer, did you not do anything childish or illegible? What's that you say? You never were a killer? Well how the **** do you know what one would do then?

I think this whole remark - "the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr" - ranks in the Top 10 reasons why the Casebook is always going to be mired in slow, suffocating mud.

The Casebook provides us all with a wonderful opportunity for discussing the possible. I'm hoping that one day we are allowed to seize it.

Ike

[FISHY1118]

Thanks for that informed and qualified opinion.

We all have those. Have any facts to dispute it?

Depends, which ones would you like? New facts, old facts, made up facts, proven,facts ,unproven facts, disputed facts, misinterpreted facts, gods honest truth facts, ignored facts (insert one particular poster),unsubstantiated, facts,unreliable facts,fun facts............. the fact of the matter is im done with facts ,because its indeed a fact that they actually matter here .

[FISHY1118]

Well here we go again with another reason why Ally asked the question in 2013 (and I paraphrase) "What's the point of the Casebook?".

Over on the thread itself, we have Wickerman smirking because he's noticed MrBarnett's new candidate for Jack has the initials 'JM' - just like on Kelly's wall. No, seriously, the smirking was actually visceral. It's very obvious he thought he was being incredibly clever, and hundreds of readers will have thought he was being clever because none of them know which letters are mooted to be on Kelly's wall.

And here we have Fishy1118 poisoning the well with misinformed opinion and unbelievably unrestrained assumption. Let me ask you Fishy1118, When you were a killer, did you not do anything childish or illegible? What's that you say? You never were a killer? Well how the **** do you know what one would do then?

I think this whole remark - "the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr" - ranks in the Top 10 reasons why the Casebook is always going to be mired in slow, suffocating mud.

The Casebook provides us all with a wonderful opportunity for discussing the possible. I'm hoping that one day we are allowed to seize it.

Ike

ill poison that well [as you like to put it] every chance i get ike , what makes your theory any more or less subject to ridicule than mine or any one elses ?. See my above post about ''facts'' maybe youll understand why i dont give toss anymore.


I look forward to wollowing away in the mud pits like the rest of us .

[Iconoclast]

ill poison that well [as you like to put it] every chance i get ike , what makes your theory any more or less subject to ridicule than mine or any one elses ?. See my above post about ''facts'' maybe youll understand why i dont give toss anymore.


I look forward to wollowing away in the mud pits like the rest of us .

If my theory - or anyone else's theory - is properly available to ridicule then perhaps that's what it ultimately deserves, though I can't help feeling we should congratulate the effort rather than denigrate the product.

Nevertheless, please don't kid yourself that you are dealing in 'facts'. You could hardly be further from the truth of it. Where is the factual in your Top Ten entry ("the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr").

It is misinformation and poisoning of the well such as this that produces that other now oft-quoted factoid: the scrapbook has been proven to be a hoax.

Words like 'proven' and 'fact' have an unyielding meaning which your anvil and hammer will never re-shape.

Ike

[FISHY1118]

If my theory - or anyone else's theory - is properly available to ridicule then perhaps that's what it ultimately deserves, though I can't help feeling we should congratulate the effort rather than denigrate the product.

Nevertheless, please don't kid yourself that you are dealing in 'facts'. You could hardly be further from the truth of it. Where is the factual in your Top Ten entry ("the real killer would never do something as childish and illegible as this if ever he wanted the world to recognise him as jtr").

It is misinformation and poisoning of the well such as this that produces that other now oft-quoted factoid: the scrapbook has been proven to be a hoax.

Words like 'proven' and 'fact' have an unyielding meaning which your anvil and hammer will never re-shape.

Ike

''If my theory - or anyone else's theory - is properly available to ridicule then perhaps that's what it ultimately deserves, though I can't help feeling we should congratulate the effort rather than denigrate the product'

See this part , well i tried if years it doesnt work . ., so now i call the b###&#*# when i see it, and the watch is just that ..... next.

Just like the people over on another thread who still like to quote newspaper reports over official police statements , more b##@@@#.