google ngrams

[MrBarnett]

OMG - fantastic - I hadn't realised that Google Ngrams skipped newspapers!!!!

Can you imagine how many newly-coined words and phrases are being used right now, today, likely to appear in daily speech, in emails, texts, television news, and printed newspapers long before they ever make it into a book?

And here's me believing that Google Ngrams was actually an all-encompassing sword of truth where literature of any form was concerned.

What a fool am I!

It skips newspapers, doesn’t cover all books, and has nothing whatsoever to tell us about private correspondence/diaries (except the minute % that have been published) or conversational English usage.

[MrBarnett]

You’ve proved my point, Baron. Ngrams is inadequate even in relation to printed material. Just imagine if the man who coined the witty, alliterative description of the Brentford Bumble had used it in a private letter or in his diary instead of in an article.

You’d be claiming that no one in the 19th century could possibly have thought of combining bounding and buffoon.

The iceberg is swiftly approaching SS Ngram, Cap’n Baron. All the sensible rats have departed, you really don’t need to go down with it.

[Iconoclast]

OMG - fantastic - I hadn't realised that Google Ngrams skipped newspapers!!!!

Can you imagine how many newly-coined words and phrases are being used right now, today, likely to appear in daily speech, in emails, texts, television news, and printed newspapers long before they ever make it into a book?

And here's me believing that Google Ngrams was actually an all-encompassing sword of truth where literature of any form was concerned.

What a fool am I!

[The Baron]

The site called Books Ngram Viewer

"When you enter phrases into the Google Books Ngram Viewer, it displays a graph showing how those phrases have occurred in a corpus of books (e.g., "British English", "English Fiction", "French") "


You may need to ponder the difference between a book and a newspaper

The article you cited was taken from the Boston Guardian October 1891

Ngram is a tool we use to find those odd phrases, then we look for them in other archives.


So nothing new, you keep proving to everyone that you are unable to find "bumbling buffoon" ever been used in the 19th century.


There is a red faced emoji you’ll be able to use in this case.





The Baron

[MrBarnett]

Let’s test it to destruction:

[MrBarnett]

The expression 'bounding buffoon' - 'bumbling buffoon' - was absolutely never used in or before this time, MrB. This has been proven incontrovertibly by the digital wisdom that is Google Ngrams (just as no-one ever said or wrote 'freshly-picked carrots' ever ever ever ever ever before 1947). And - just if you were trying to be clever - 'buffoon of Bumbledon' sounds nothing like (and looks nothing like) 'bumbling buffoon' either so stop trying to falsify the Great Wisdom of our age.

You are attempting to poison the well with insight.

Ike

Perhaps I’m doing something wrong, but if ‘bounding buffoon’ can’t be found through ngrams, then this whole waste of time and effort thread is dead in the water.

Baron: There is a red faced emoji you’ll be able to use if that is the case.

[Iconoclast]

I’m not having any luck in finding ‘bounding buffoon’ through ngrams. Can anyone help?

The expression 'bounding buffoon' - 'bumbling buffoon' - was absolutely never used in or before this time, MrB. This has been proven incontrovertibly by the digital wisdom that is Google Ngrams (just as no-one ever said or wrote 'freshly-picked carrots' ever ever ever ever ever before 1947). And - just if you were trying to be clever - 'buffoon of Bumbledon' sounds nothing like (and looks nothing like) 'bumbling buffoon' either so stop trying to falsify the Great Wisdom of our age.

You are attempting to poison the well with insight.

Ike

[MrBarnett]

Someone in 1891 came up with this amusing description of a member of the Brentford Board of Guardians:

‘Brown of Brentford, the bucolic bounding buffoon of Bumbledom’

I’m not having any luck in finding ‘bounding buffoon’ through ngrams. Can anyone help?

Of course, in this case Bumbledom is a reference to parochial officialdom.

[The Baron]

Has David run these past a professional handwriting expert yet, Baron?

Surely that would end the controversy for good if he is confident enough that Anne held the pen. He'd be your hero!

If he can't afford a professional opinion, I'm sure his supporters would have a whip-round for him.

What is there to fear - if the confidence is not just hot air?

Is this the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness?

Or wind and general waspishness?

Or windbags and shallow fruitlessness?

Answers on a saucy postcard.

Love,

Cazzandra
X

For a professional comparison you need to have the original papers with Anne's handwriting and the scrapbook handwriting side by side, copies are not enough for such purpose.

The thread above is an educated and laudable effort to highlight some 'similarities' between those two writing styles.

But what have you done in that regard Cazzandra, except for taking my breath away?!



The Baron

[caz]

Has David run these past a professional handwriting expert yet, Baron?

Surely that would end the controversy for good if he is confident enough that Anne held the pen. He'd be your hero!

If he can't afford a professional opinion, I'm sure his supporters would have a whip-round for him.

What is there to fear - if the confidence is not just hot air?

Is this the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness?

Or wind and general waspishness?

Or windbags and shallow fruitlessness?

Answers on a saucy postcard.

Love,

Cazzandra
X

[The Baron]

4 - From Anne Graham's voicemail message of 31.07.94:


"I think it was in 1968/69 I seen the Diary for the first time."

"I never seen Tony again."

"I seen Paul the other day"



The hoaxer in the 'diary' says:


"The whore seen her master today"






The Baron

5 - Anne Graham's handwriting 'as shown by David Orsam' does bear a major and suspicious similarity to the handwriting of the diary.

Here is the link to the thread where you can see at least 9 examples of those glaring similarities.



https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...dwriting/page3




The Baron

[caz]

At least you admit now that the hoaxer is a liverpudlian!

Where did that logic come from, Baron? Your arsenal?

I'm a Londoner, born and bred. But I if I had ever thought of faking a Liverpudlian's diary, there would have been nothing to stop me writing 'I seen...' to make it sound a tad more authentic.

Mind you, my handwriting would have caught me out and landed me in prison because I wouldn't have had the first idea how to disguise it so effectively that 30 years down the line I'd still be a free woman.

Love,

Caz
X

[Iconoclast]

It's only an 'oddity' because you are not familiar with the dialect.

And Anne was only ever 'suspected' of co-authoring the diary because the hopeless lying Scouser who married her was bitter when she left him and took revenge by accusing her.

He readily admitted that nobody sane would believe that it was his handwriting in the diary, so it had to be Anne's - and if you believe that, may I kindly suggest that you might as well believe it was Maybrick's. It's the same wishful thinking at play.

Love,

Caz
X

Good point, Caz.

Hey, wasn't James Maybrick a Liverpudlian too?

I'll need to look that one up, but I'm feeling fairly confident ...

[caz]

My list is not based on this, it alone proves nothing, but when I find similar oddity between the hoaxer and the suspected Anne, I will happily take it and point it out!


At least you admit now that the hoaxer is a liverpudlian!






The Baron

It's only an 'oddity' because you are not familiar with the dialect.

It's another bad argument that you would have done without if all your other arguments stood up by themselves.

And Anne was only ever 'suspected' of co-authoring the diary because the hopeless lying Scouser who married her was bitter when she left him and took revenge by accusing her, knowing that some people will believe anything.

Mike readily admitted that nobody sane would believe it was his handwriting in the diary, so it had to be Anne's - and if you believe that, may I kindly suggest that you might as well believe it was Maybrick's. It's the same wishful thinking at play.

Love,

Caz
X

[Iconoclast]

Do you also have a list for Paul Dodd, owner of Battlecrease and former school teacher, Baron? I'm pretty sure I've heard him say "seen" for "saw" too, in addition to saying "saw" for "saw" on other occasions.

It's common enough among Scousers in my experience to switch between the two, so it proves nothing. You may as well start lists for half of Liverpool.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,

There's an entire tranche of Glaswegians who persist in saying 'mines' rather than 'mine' whilst being perfectly capable of saying 'mine' when the occasion better suits them to.

I don't think that proves they are serial killer hoaxers either, by the way.

Cheers,

Ike