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  • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    There seems to be a few turns of phrase that were not in vogue for when the diary was purportedly written. The more of them that mount up, the more damaging it is to the diary's credibility. Of course, the pro-diarists will keep taking refuge in absence of evidence as not evidence of absence. In fact, since they believe the diary is genuine, and the diary contains those phrases, that in itself proves the diary's authenticity. That's the kind of dishonest logic critics are up against and there's no quarrelling with blind faith.
    The dishonesty will be all yours, Harry, if you can't quote any pro-diarist using this circular logic. Should be easy enough to prove either way, since there are only a couple of posters who believe the diary could be genuine.

    Absence of evidence in this case would indeed be evidence of absence, if you can't come up with a single quote from the last thirteen years.

    Good luck with your search, Harry.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Baron View Post



      The earth is flat Caz, you know that

      I challenge you to find "Bumbling buffoon" used in the 19 century!



      The Baron
      Do you not understand my posts, Baron? The earliest written or spoken example of that exact phrase will not have survived and therefore a date cannot be put on it. It's as much use looking for its presence on the existing record, as it was for others to look for its absence. It was never going to be there to begin with.

      In short, not much use at all.

      Love,

      Caz
      X

      "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


      Comment


      • Originally posted by caz View Post

        Beyond bumbling to boot, Gary?

        Love,

        Caz
        X
        Of course a Victorian might speak of a ‘blundering buffoon’ or a ‘boisterous buffoon’, he might speak of ‘fumbling, bumbling, stumbling, jumbling, mumbling, grumbling radicals’.

        But he couldn’t possibly have used the term ‘bumbling buffoon’. Such an unlikely combination of words could not possibly have occurred to any of Queen Vic’s subjects.

        It’s a fact. Barren has told us so.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Baron View Post



          The earth is flat Caz, you know that

          I challenge you to find "Bumbling buffoon" used in the 19 century!



          The Baron
          Once upon a time the challenge was to find an example of ‘topping’ to mean committing suicide being used in the 19th century.

          Turns out there was one, just one, but that was enough to prove the term had been in use in the Victorian era.

          But what if that one example hadn’t existed? You’d no doubt be calling those who said there was no evidence that it wasn’t in use flat earthers and demonstrating how truly Barren you really are.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by caz View Post

            Do you not understand my posts, Baron? The earliest written or spoken example of that exact phrase will not have survived and therefore a date cannot be put on it. It's as much use looking for its presence on the existing record, as it was for others to look for its absence. It was never going to be there to begin with.

            In short, not much use at all.

            Love,

            Caz
            X


            So you can't.

            I expected that much.

            Oh, and what about "one off instance" or "spreading mayhem" or the super funny and fatal "Aunt" error! all within some 20 pages of a poorly faked diary?!


            The diary is a modern hoax, we are here enjoying the lovely sun rays of the Truth, and crack laughing about the bumbling buffoonery we encounter along the road!






            The Baron

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
              While Google ngrams cannot be definitive in respect of anything other than the written sources it uses, it is a good guide to what the literate population had on its mind at any point in the Victorian era.
              It’s probably a coincidence that during the exact period when there was apparently a spike in concern about bigamy Charles Lechmere’s mother left her native Herefordshire for the anonymity of the east end where she bigamously married Thomas Cross.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                Once upon a time the challenge was to find an example of ‘topping’ to mean committing suicide being used in the 19th century.

                Turns out there was one, just one, but that was enough to prove the term had been in use in the Victorian era.

                But what if that one example hadn’t existed? You’d no doubt be calling those who said there was no evidence that it wasn’t in use flat earthers and demonstrating how truly Barren you really are.


                I suppose this is your educated way of admitting you cannot find "Bumbling Buffoon" used in the 19th century!





                Maybe you can try "One off instance" for a change!







                The Baron

                Comment


                • Barren,

                  Grow up and ditch the emojis.

                  Gary

                  Comment


                  • I quite like them, Gary.

                    It's fun when you see the calibre of some of those afflicted by Bongo Fever. Must be an embarrassment to those who seek to claim the higher moral and intellectual ground.

                    But it's cocktail hour on a Friday. Even more fun than watching the afflicted dancing.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by caz View Post
                      I quite like them, Gary.

                      It's fun when you see the calibre of some of those afflicted by Bongo Fever. Must be an embarrassment to those who seek to claim the higher moral and intellectual ground.

                      But it's cocktail hour on a Friday. Even more fun than watching the afflicted dancing.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      Hi Caz,

                      I see what you mean, it’s the online equivalent of a dunce’s cap.

                      Barren,

                      Please keep using the emojis.

                      MrB

                      Comment


                      • Imagine the Victorians and all who preceded them - indeed two generations who followed them - never having heard of 'freshly picked carrots'! Imagine a world where those tasty vegetables - providers of supersonic eyesight, so Old Mrs Iconoclast used to assure the young Ike - were absent on the nation's dinner plates because no-one had thought to pick them whilst they were fresh!

                        Thank goodness that some genius came along just after WWII - the first person ever in UK/British history to think of it - and got some carrots that were freshly picked, boiled them up, and served them to his or her kids at teatime before publishing this fact in order to ensure that Google Ngrams could log it as a concept at long last seventy years or so later.

                        If this event had not occurred, how many of us would ever have realised how novel such boiling of the pointy oranges actually is!

                        I wonder how many other things did not exist until they were eventually mentioned in a suitable tome which Ngrams might deem it appropriate to OCR more or less accurately?

                        Freshly Picked Vegetable Loving Ike
                        Little Wonder He Sees Things So Clearly

                        PS A large prize awaits the first person to make a saucy joke out of 'Freshly Picked Vegetable Loving Ike'. I can just hear Caz's cogs a-whirring as I type. At least, I hope it's her cogs I can hear a-whirring my way ...
                        Iconoclast

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by caz View Post

                          The dishonesty will be all yours, Harry, if you can't quote any pro-diarist using this circular logic. Should be easy enough to prove either way, since there are only a couple of posters who believe the diary could be genuine.

                          Absence of evidence in this case would indeed be evidence of absence, if you can't come up with a single quote from the last thirteen years.

                          Good luck with your search, Harry.

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          If you're expecting me to wade through the mud of 10,000+ posts on the subject to find those specific instances, you might be waiting some time for that one!

                          I'm pretty confident who would've said it, though

                          Comment


                          • whoring mother


                            According to google ngrams this phrase starts to appear since 1939


                            In this faked diary alone, it appears 12 Times!





                            The Baron

                            Comment


                            • city of whores


                              According to ngrams, this phrase starts to appear since 1923

                              In this faked diary it appears 6 times!


                              Is there any phrase at all in this scrapbook that belongs to the 19th century?!






                              The Baron

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The Baron View Post
                                whoring mother
                                Speaking of which, if anyone happens to have a copy of HO 144/1638 A50678D/6 feel free to post it.

                                I'd like to check the validity of Anne Graham's claim that 'whoring mother' is a reference to Maybrick learning that Florrie had suffered a miscarriage around September 1888. She cites the above document as her source.

                                Feldman's only possible allusion to this event dates it to eight months later---May 1889--and it is hard to believe that Feldy wouldn't have milked it to the max, if what Graham claims is true. One of the earliest criticisms of the diary was that the references to Florrie's 1888 affair is an anachronism, so it's odd that Feldman wouldn't have commented on this important document.

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