Upon reading the Diary again...

[Phil H]

A convinced and determined forger, very full of having read lots of JtR books. That's my view of his mental state.

I assume someone thought there'd be money in it.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

Thank you.

Apart from me never having spoken to "one of our consultants" and not having identified the initials as either an "F" or an "M", the story is about right.

Regards,

Simon

[caz]

A convinced and determined forger, very full of having read lots of JtR books. That's my view of his mental state.

I assume someone thought there'd be money in it.

Hi Phil,

You claimed elsewhere that you have only read the diary once and found it an utter waste of your time, which is absolutely fair enough and you are certainly not alone.

Yet here you are again, gaily wasting time giving your 'view' of the author's mental state.

Any reason why your diary views deserve to be regarded as anything but worthless in the circumstances?

Love,

Caz
X

[Phil H]

Caz - I was being satirical!! Get a life and a sense of humour for heaven's sake!

[Steven Russell]

Miakaal4,
Don't take it to heart, mate. For some reason, diary threads seem to provoke the most robust discussion on here (along with Hutchinson). Tempus is absolutely correct in saying you have every right to ask any questions and forward any opinions you like on this site.

Tempus,
You seem to think that everyone needs a pet suspect. Don't forget, many respected Ripperologists have a "Some are more likely than others but no-one can say for definite" attitude.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Phil H]

Don't forget, many respected Ripperologists have a "Some are more likely than others but no-one can say for definite" attitude.

Well said. That also goes for run of the mill, diletente students of the case such as me. But having a pet suspect is no problem, many of us probably have had one at some stage - I certainly did at one time: Druitt!!

But Maybrick I have never thought fitted the bill.

Phil H

[Jason]

my favourite is the Duke of Clarence and Avondale !

he did it ! and there is a photo of him in Dorset Street wearing an astrakhan coat getting into John Netleys carriage......with Michael Caine in hot pursuit

[miakaal4]

Maybrick was a funny little man...

Maybrick says much in the Diary that reveals his true feelings, but he is continuously attempting to diguise them. The difficult thing is working out the real from the imagined. For example, the whole reason for him killing "whores" is because of her, (Florence) infidelity, and yet more than once we read things like; "The thought of him taking her is beginning to thrill me..." He is being turned on by it, not angered. Another possible dichotomy is that when he thinks of his wife at the moment of the kill, which I would have thought was the whole point, he complains; "I could not cut like the last...visions of her flooded back as I struck..." This tells me that although Maybrick is using the Diary as a personal confessional, even here he is lying. He calls every woman he mentions a "bitch". Mrs Hammersmith, Queen Victoria, even the servants, and of course Florence. There is a definate short term extreme misogyny that eventually extends to his secret lover, "mine", as he promises the diary to make her suffer too. But then he also promises to murder several men in the diary. Does all this show that he was just a sexual murderer, or was he becoming something else? What was his real motivation? And why blame poor Lowry for "making me rip"?

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Thankyou for that Tempus. By the way the doctor you referred to was Dr Fuller.
Talking of doctors, one can only wonder at the outcome had Maybrick discovered Florence pregnant by her lover.

Thanks for that miakaal4. I must confess my mind does whiz when remembering all the names sometimes.

As I understand it there are a number of rumours of Florence being pregnant at various times in her life - including one when she was in prison. Let's face it, she had enough lovers in tow, so it wouldn't surprise me; the collection of love letter's found after Maybrick's death prove that she was not exactly a wallflower when it came to extra-marital activities (Mind you, nor was Maybrick, to be fair).

I think if he had have discovered something along those lines then, like most people, he would have hit the roof. His temper was not exactly attached to a long fuse, from what I have gleaned. Whether Maybrick's reaction to this - if he was the killer (and I believe he was) - would have made any difference to the murders that were to follow, I am not sure. It is an interesting thought, though.

Kind regards,


Tempus

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Maybrick says much in the Diary that reveals his true feelings, but he is continuously attempting to diguise them. The difficult thing is working out the real from the imagined. For example, the whole reason for him killing "whores" is because of her, (Florence) infidelity, and yet more than once we read things like; "The thought of him taking her is beginning to thrill me..." He is being turned on by it, not angered.

Again, miakaal4, I believe it is to do with the switching of the mind that is recurrent in some mental illnesses. You would be surprised (or, perhaps, you wouldn't) what differing things the mind can think from one minute to the next. I, unfortunately, have first hand experience of this. Hypersexuality is just on explanation for the thought that you point out above.

Another possible dichotomy is that when he thinks of his wife at the moment of the kill, which I would have thought was the whole point, he complains; "I could not cut like the last...visions of her flooded back as I struck..." This tells me that although Maybrick is using the Diary as a personal confessional, even here he is lying. [/B]

I'm sure, at this point, Maybrick is referring back to the Kelly killing. He is also, at this point, starting to have regrets as to his conduct. Again this may be to do with his mental
state. The pressure of these events may very well be catching up with him. It is very difficult to explain to someone who does not have MH issues of any kind how the brain reacts depending on your mood. He may not be lying, he may just simply be in a particularly depressed or low state of mind, as such, he is not able to cope with the situation at that time. Whereas the next day, hour or minute his mind may switch again, and he may think he can take on the world.
It could also be to do with the differing drugs he is taking. Continually stopping and retaking drugs can have all sorts of conotations for your mood.

He calls every woman he mentions a "bitch". Mrs Hammersmith, Queen Victoria, even the servants, and of course Florence. There is a definate short term extreme misogyny that eventually extends to his secret lover, "mine", as he promises the diary to make her suffer too. But then he also promises to murder several men in the diary. Does all this show that he was just a sexual murderer, or was he becoming something else? What was his real motivation? And why blame poor Lowry for "making me rip"?

Again you make some excellent points, maikaal4. To me, it is, as I say, all to do with the mixed mind, but I know that explanation will not satisfy you - and why should it. I think I will have to return to the diary and consider you points more closely.

Kind regards,


Tempus

[DVV]

I think I will have to return to the diary and consider you points more closely.

Tempus

Hi Tempus,
perhaps the forger has published new books since The Diary. If you like his style, you should have a look.

[miakaal4]

I'm sure you're right there Tempus, the whole Diary is a mass of short sentences, over 1000 of them. One thought after another, often with no obvious connection. It reminded me of something I read in a book by Colin Wilson, where he notes Fredrick Baker, the killer of Fanny Adams wrote in his diary; "Killed a girl today. It was fine and hot." he was described as a respectable young man, who suffered attacks of "acute mania". Obviously so did Maybrick.

[Stephen Thomas]

Sweet FA

I'm sure you're right there Tempus, the whole Diary is a mass of short sentences, over 1000 of them. One thought after another, often with no obvious connection. It reminded me of something I read in a book by Colin Wilson, where he notes Fredrick Baker, the killer of Fanny Adams wrote in his diary; "Killed a girl today. It was fine and hot." he was described as a respectable young man, who suffered attacks of "acute mania". Obviously so did Maybrick.

The 'Diary' consists mainly of short sentences because the forger wasn't intellectually capable of stringing out longer ones.

[Tempus omnia revelat]

The 'Diary' consists mainly of short sentences because the forger wasn't intellectually capable of stringing out longer ones.

No, but he was intellectually capable of spotting that a group of supposedly unrelated and - according to many of you - non-existant items, when put together, make an FM. He was clever enough to give you a reason behind items that, up till now, nobody has bothered to give an explanation for.


Kind regards,


Tempus

[Tempus omnia revelat]

I'm sure you're right there Tempus, the whole Diary is a mass of short sentences, over 1000 of them. One thought after another, often with no obvious connection. It reminded me of something I read in a book by Colin Wilson, where he notes Fredrick Baker, the killer of Fanny Adams wrote in his diary; "Killed a girl today. It was fine and hot." he was described as a respectable young man, who suffered attacks of "acute mania". Obviously so did Maybrick.

That is a great example, miakaal4. Precisely what I was talking about. The juxtaposition of the various thoughts and conditions of the mind.

Kind regards,

Tempus