17th September to Diary handwriting comparisons

[miakaal4]

I have just tried writing a short sentence of seven words, at the same speed I would normally write. On comparing them I can see many very obvious differences and as many things that are very much the same.
Perhaps all the letters should go through the same ordeals that the Diary and Watch have been through? We could see how close to 1888 the experts who examined the Diary get to their real dates.

[miakaal4]

hey Tempus you are my main man on this board.
I think the writing is OBVIOUSLY by the same person. However, I also believe that if you had a clear photograph showing Maybrick killing one of the victims, half the board would scream FAKE!
I just wish I had the spare time to help you do the research. Good luck, and thanks for your efforts.

[Livia]

Hello Sleekviper,

I few points....

The letter of April 29, 1889 to Michael, is not actually
in Maybrick's hand, but was transcribed by a clerk:

http://www.jamesmaybrick.org/pdf%20files/Maybrick,%20James%20(Blucher%20letter).pdf

(see the note at the bottom)

Maybrick's doctors (and there were several
of them) considered him a hypochondriac, but of all his
complaints, night blindness was not one of them. In fact,
there's no record that he ever complained of any sort
of trouble with his eyes. The typically well fed Victorian
would have eaten a diet rich in vitamin A, eggs, liver,
kidneys, carrots, fish, etc. and according to Dr Humphrey's
notes at Maybrick's autopsy, "..."The frame and condition
of the man were well developed, his countenance being
classical..."

Maybrick told several people how beneficial
and strengthening arsenic was for him and in fact,
the chemist who supplied him with doses
during the work day referred to these doses as "pick
me ups". But, if Maybrick had decided to stop taking
arsenic, then he would exhibit all the symptoms of
poisoning, which is what he seems to be describing
in his letter to Michael.

Liv

[sleekviper]

Hi Caz!
Yes, he wrote his brother on the 29th, which does appear to be a labor for him to do so. What can not be taken from what he wrote is the degree of difficulty he would have faced on a average day, if any. He seems rather quick to shake off problems that would have many screaming for help, it is somewhat questionable that the problems would not have happened before, although less severe.I mean when he says, "I found my legs to be stiff and useless, but by sheer strength of will I shook it off", makes one wonder if this was a new feeling, or a feeling that is known although less severe? Just seems odd to have ones legs not work, but shake it off to be in the rain if the problem had not been known to happen on some level before.
Even then they knew arsenic would accumulate in the body, and that it was a slow process for the body to rid itself of it, what was not clear was the mimic action that was present while it was there. So if he could write with no problem, he still has a greater problem to battle; arsenic depletes vitamin A, and that means he has night blindness. So for all that we know arsenic to do, and the habit that he had, this would be a really hard sell.

[towboydds]

Hello TB. Welcome to the boards.

I think you have made an important observation concerning handwriting. Items such as slope, slant, margin and internal spacing are MUCH harder to change than some other items. And these are the things of which we are usually unaware.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,

Thank you for the welcome and the kind words on my somewhat clumsily put narrative of the handwriting.

PS. I am still learning of this case, and have no opinion of who did or could have done this.

[lynn cates]

Give him a hand.

Hello TB. Welcome to the boards.

I think you have made an important observation concerning handwriting. Items such as slope, slant, margin and internal spacing are MUCH harder to change than some other items. And these are the things of which we are usually unaware.

Cheers.
LC

[towboydds]

Hi again everyone!

Here (at last!) are some of those 17th September to Diary handwriting comparisons I promised you. Sorry they've have taken so long.

I'm not as certain with these as I am with the 22nd Nov postcard (more research needed), but I still think the similarity in the style of the handwriting andin regards certain words (The 'about,' 'loves' and 'nevers,' for example) is striking. Especially when we remember that the 17th Sept letter is supposed to be a fake and the diary's handwriting isn't suppossed to look like anything.


[ATTACH]14009[/ATTACH]


One thing you may notice about the 'time' from the 17th Sept letter is that it has the same, curious, flat-bottomed 'I' that the 'police' from the 22nd of Nov postcard has. The diary also contains similar flat-bottomed 'I's'.


Kind regards,

Tempus

There are some very basic abnormalities that are being overlooked here and giving credit as similar when they are distinctly different. Handwriting in itself is an art-form, and each person forms words in a very indistinctly distinct manner. If your printing shows a certain slanting style to it, your cursive penning will then do the same. In these examples there are strike marks at the 'a' in above that have no flow to being similar thus forming a 'b' that is also not done by the same hand. In respect to the word love, the 'l' it is formed in a shorter stroke the 'o' is by far the best character in the word as it is made with in the "letter" and under-curve with repetition on the far right of the character and from the "diary" the 4 examples shown are in order as such. 1. the 'o' goes from the top, then curves to the bottom and flows out. 2. the 'o' starts at the bottom but because of it's unnatural trail it caps itself before flowing into the rest of the word, obvious sign of thought while writing. 3. This one again has a bottom start to the circle but gets 'oval-ed' if you will in the abnormality of its flow. 4. this 'o' is a penmanship flow example used by teachers around the world, it fits into the correct way of writing, but has no characteristics of the "letter".

There are many examples to how writing itself can fail to be exacted as the same if one looks at things objectively. As a writing connoisseur I find it hard to make the distinction that these are by the same hand.

[caz]

So if Maybrick does have trouble buttoning a shirt, be hard to write much of anything I would think. Well, suppose anything is possible.

Hi sleek,

But we know the real James Maybrick was still corresponding by letter well into 1889, and was able to write a fairly long and detailed letter to his brother on 29th April 1889, just twelve days before his death, so where there was a will there was a way.

The answer might lie in the fact that he is said to have gradually built up his intake of arsenic to such a degree that his daily amount would have been a fatal dose to anyone not used to it. In consequence, the other effects on his health may have been less severe than they would otherwise have been.

Love,

Caz
X

[ChainzCooper]

Hi ChainzCooper!


I am not aware of the 10th of Aug letter(?). I assume you are referring to the 'Galashiels' letter that was dated the 8th of October 1888. I personally have not attempted the same thing as I do not have a particularly good copy of the S. S. Baltic letter (I am trying to get hold of a decent scan at this very moment).

I have, however, made comparisons with several other letters that are held at the PRO and I hope to display these shortly.

Kind regards,

Tempus

You are correct I misread the date (how stupid of me its even stamped by the police the next day haha). I have seen copies of both letters in Paul Feldman's book. Can't wait for your next findings
Jordan

[Carol]

You, me, Sir Spysie of Second Sight, and that daft lass Carol with her cruton carelessness are the vanguards of a new world order in Ripperology.

Amen to that, your graces!

S. Soothsayer
Engine of Insight

Good evening, Mr. Soothsayer, Sir. Cook thinks I should explain about the crootons that you found in your beer. I've told her that the reason will probably make you feel sick but she thinks you have a right to know. So here goes. (Cook's new gentleman-friend, PC Entwhistle, has helped me with the wording).

Cook, PC Entwhistle, young George and myself had soup for lunch on the day in question. We always use your beer mugs when we have soup. The handles come in handy. We had vegetable consommy and Cook always makes us crootons to go with it. Now - after lunch Cook told young George to wash up the mugs in the scullery as she wanted me to make the sandwiches for afternoon tea. That was the day when the Mistress had one of her 'at homes'. It's normally my job to do the washing up and I know George thinks it's beneath him - cheeky whatsit. Then just as I started on the sandwiches you rang down for a beer and Cook told George to stop what he was doing (the washing up) and take the beer up to you. Which he did. Now this is what Cook, PC Entwhistle and myself think happened - although George denies it. We think he hadn't washed the beer mugs but had just poured the beer into one of them. Then when you started to drink your beer you noticed the crootons floating about in it. We think that some crootons had been stuck to the bottom of the mug and had floated to the surface.

Cook has given young George a right dressing-down and I can't say I blame her! What really hurts me is that you think it was my fault. I'm so upset. I only found out about this yesterday.

You don't really think I'm daft, do you Sir?

Your obedient servant,
Carol

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Nice work Tempus. I was wondering if you have attempted the same thing with the Maybrick ship letter and the August 10th letter?
Jordan

Hi ChainzCooper!


I am not aware of the 10th of Aug letter(?). I assume you are referring to the 'Galashiels' letter that was dated the 8th of October 1888. I personally have not attempted the same thing as I do not have a particularly good copy of the S. S. Baltic letter (I am trying to get hold of a decent scan at this very moment).

I have, however, made comparisons with several other letters that are held at the PRO and I hope to display these shortly.

Kind regards,

Tempus

[ChainzCooper]

Here's a larger version.

[ATTACH]14026[/ATTACH]

Nice work Tempus. I was wondering if you have attempted the same thing with the Maybrick ship letter and the August 10th letter?
Jordan

[sleekviper]

Hello Lynn! Things are balanced I suspect, just not sure if that is a good thing. Hope all is well in your area of the world. So if Maybrick does have trouble buttoning a shirt, be hard to write much of anything I would think. Well, suppose anything is possible.

[lynn cates]

sick

Hello Joe. Hope you are well.

Yes, JM was a sick chap for the reasons you list. Hard for him to be really implicated in the WCM.

Cheers.
LC

[sleekviper]

Peripheral neuropathyamage to the nerves can make it harder to control muscles. It can also cause weakness. You may notice problems moving a part of your body. You may fall because your legs buckle. You may trip over your toes.

Doing tasks such as buttoning a shirt may be harder. You may also notice your muscles twitch or cramp. Your muscles may become smaller.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001619/

There are three types of toxins that can be poisonous and cause peripheral neuropathy: medication, industrial chemicals, and heavy metals (1, 4). The heavy metals that cause peripheral neuropathy are lead, arsenic, thallium, and mercury. When these elements are in organic or inorganic compounds they become toxic to humans and animals. Arsenic poisoning can mimic Gullain-Barr disease.
http://faculty.virginia.edu/metals/cases/moyer2.html

Guillain-Barre syndrome is a serious disorder that occurs when the body's defense (immune) system mistakenly attacks part of the nervous system. This leads to nerve inflammation that causes muscle weakness.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001704/

Arsenic poisoning is a major contributing factor to beriberi, as it interferes with the body’s use of thiamine. Other symptoms of heavy metal toxicity with arsenic include diarrhea, confusion, fatigue, and convulsions. White spots in the fingernails, and rough dark spots on the hands and feet are also signs. As the capillaries break down, the gums and tongue will redden.Arsenic also depletes vitamin A which leads to night blindness and more heart problems. Muscle cramping, hair loss, lower respiratory disease, diabetes, and cancers can be caused by arsenic, though tiny doses of arsenic may be useful for some cancers. Low potassium contributes to the toxicity of arsenic.

http://ancientway.com/blog/?p=2079

ARSENIC is related to Heart disease (hypertension related cardiovascular), Cancer, Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases), Chronic lower respiratory diseases, and Night blindness Long term exposure to ARSENIC is related to vitamin A deficiency which is related to heart disease and night blindness.

http://highbloodpressurecomedown.com/f-glutathione-fyi-arsenic-world-mass-poisoning-we-can-help/

I do not think that someone with long term use, could have avoided all the complications associated with long term use of a highly addictive drug with these effects, to have been a murderer that has went untraced for this amount of time. Blind at night, weak, tripping over own feet is a bit of a stretch to be the person, or among the persons, that was involved in these crimes. Just me, but can not see it.