Diary to Ripper letter handwriting comparison

[Jason]

In this day and age we can date anything eg. bones,cloth....why cant we date, what in relative terms is from yesterday ? the diary has been subjected to virtually every examination possible but i have yet to see anything which has refuted its authenticity in terms of its age ( I may be wrong on this )....i am very open minded.....

[Tom_Wescott]

Tom Omnia Revelat

Hi Tempus,

I think Maybrick is about as likely to be the Ripper as you or I, but I must say 'good eye' to you. I can't deny that this letter you've found is damn near identical to the Diary excerpts you provided.

My only question would be, is it consistent throughout the Diary and letter, or might you have been selective in the examples you provided to us?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Hi Tom!

The handwriting of the diary is consistent throughout the diary in terms of the fact that it was all clearly written by the same person. However, within the diary the words and letters will change depending on what mood, frame of mind, situation he is in at the time (anger, frustration, rushing, under the influence off drugs) etc. Therefore, each individual word and letter will change slightly depending on this. That is why it is very hard to find exact matches for words throughout the diary. Some words he will squash together, others he will not, some 'Ts' he will join up, others he will not. There are many other examples of this throughout the diary, but, at the end of the day, it was still written by the same person.

The letters I have placed on the postcard are the closest match I could find. However, having said that, in the case of the 'agains,' 'mes,' 'soons,' and 'cans,' you have an abundance of examples to choose from.

I think the main point here is that we have gone from people saying that the handwriting of the diary looks unlike any of the letters, or James', handwritng to the sudden realisation that it may do. And this is not the only example I have that is similar to James' handwriting and the diary's. Take the 17th September letter that everyone believes is a fake (despite the Public Record Office being perfectly happy with it's authenticity - I have asked them myself), for example. I defy anybody to look at the way the diarist writes his 'nevers,' 'loves', 'abouts' etc. without saying, at the very least, that they are similar in nature to the letter.

Kind regards,

Tempus

[caz]

I also know of no evidence to suggest that Maybrick either:

1. Killed anyone.

2. Was violent.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I appreciate you putting it that way, rather than saying 'there is no' evidence.

I too know of no evidence that Maybrick killed anyone.

He did hit his wife on one occasion, although so did many a husband! He is also said to have threatened to "break every bone" in a member of the household staff's body for being careless when looking after his daughter.

Love,

Caz
X

[Livia]

...I think the main point here is that we have gone from people saying that the handwriting of the diary looks unlike any of the letters, or James', handwritng to the sudden realisation that it may do. And this is not the only example I have that is similar to James' handwriting and the diary's. Take the 17th September letter that everyone believes is a fake (despite the Public Record Office being perfectly happy with it's authenticity - I have asked them myself), for example. I defy anybody to look at the way the diarist writes his 'nevers,' 'loves', 'abouts' etc. without saying, at the very least, that they are similar in nature to the letter.

Kind regards,

Tempus

Hi Tempus,

I agree that some of the words in the postcard are a very
close match to words in the diary, as you have shown them.
And I appreciate how much work you must have done and how
tedious it can be. If this is legit, the writer of the postcard
and the writer of the diary are contemporary to Maybrick
and the Ripper.

But where is the match to known samples of Maybrick's
handwriting?

Liv

[lynn cates]

Victorian violence

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

"He did hit his wife on one occasion, although so did many a husband!"

Indeed. Just finished the book by Louisa Devey about Lady Lytton. Seems his lordship, in a fit of pique, bit the blood out of her cheek at one point.

He also threatened both her and her (their!) "brats."

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

These may help us to form a sound judgement.




Regards,

Simon

[Jason]

looks interesting, looking forward to this thread developing further ! thanks tempus, i love it when something new comes along !

[Nemo]

Wynne Baxter came from Stoke Newington and a JtR communication had appeared in a Stoke Newington street just over a week before this letter was received

It is probably one of the most unusual communications in that it was a message written on a "wooden facsimile of the Ripper's knife...


Morning Advertiser 12th Nov 1888

On Saturday the police at Stoke Newington were informed that there was found in Palatine-road, Stoke Newington, a piece of wood cut in the shape of a cross, on which was written in ink the following words:-"This is a fac-simile of the knife with which I committed the murder.-Jack the Ripper." On the other side was written, "I will visit Stoke Newington next Friday.-Jack the Ripper."

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Hi Simon!


Many thanks for posting the address side of this postcard. I shall have to study it in greater detail to be sure, but I am almost certain I recognise some of the letter formations already - particularly the flat bottomed 'I' in 'police,' and also the 'S' in Stoke Newington. I shall try - at some point - to post some diary to 17th sept letter comparisons, as well, just so people can see that it isn't just this letter that is similar to the writing of the diary.

With regards to James' hanwriting, the above postcard is quite interesting, as it not only covers the handwriting of the diary, it also matches several words that are to be found in one of James' company memos (particularly the 'yous/yours,' 'I,' 'of',' and the interesting 'with'). The bottom right side of the 'W' in this 'with' has a curiously flattened posture. This flat bottom to the right side of the 'W' is common throughout the diary (again I will try and post this for comparison), and it also occurs in some of James' writing.




Kind regards,

Tempus

[Cogidubnus]

Wynne Baxter came from Stoke Newington and a JtR communication had appeared in a Stoke Newington street just over a week before this letter was received

Odd...I always thought he came from Lewes in East Sussex

Dave

[Soothsayer]

With regards to James' hanwriting, the above postcard is quite interesting, as it not only covers the handwriting of the diary, it also matches several words that are to be found in one of James' company memos (particularly the 'yous/yours,' 'I,' 'of',' and the interesting 'with').

Well, this thread has certainly shifted the shifting sands somewhat more than I could ever have expected when finally choosing to rise this morning after last evening's ale and merriment and then clicking on my internet access machine with a dull head and little optimism that the tide was actually, genuinely, turning at long last, and - wonderfully - in the direction you will all recall I have been dragging you for many a long year now. This is actually the most significant piece of work to come out of Maybrickology since the days of Harrison and Feldman - and for that, young man, you deserve all due praise and our full respect, and - you will note below - the highest honour of all on this site, the Order of the Soothsayer Garter of Truth and General Sword Swishing.

If I was a cynic, I'd be tempted to say 'Where were you when I was getting roundly and routinely battered by the Naysayers and the worried well", but that would be churlish of me given the fact that you have actually done some solid research and actually contributed to our knowledge base with a most fascinating piece of work (more than I have ever done, but let's not dwell too long on that).

I was frustrated, however, to find that the two examples of the letter 'M' in the postcard lacked the rising second-half which is a reasonably consistent theme throughout the journal, and also features very clearly in the famous (and currently still first despite your teasing promises) 'FM' on MJK's wall. Perhaps this feature of his 'M' only really manifested itself in earnest when he was writing it as a capital?

Nevertheless, I have read your thread with tremendous optimism and suddenly believe that you may well indeed have something cooking in your other 'FM' thread which might just shift the shifting sands a little further still. Or, indeed, irrevocably ...

Arise Sir Tempus, Knight of Right and Might.

[Nemo]

Yes, apologies - He lived in Stoke Newington

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tempus,

You're welcome. Glad you found it useful.

Do you happen to know if this postcard was from the same pack of ten as Saucy Jacky?

Regards,

Simon

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Hi everyone!
Wasn’t going to show you this before I finished my report, but I sense some of you are growing impatient to see it and don’t wish to mess you around any further. All I will say is that I am perfectly prepared for some of you to be disappointed with what I have to show you and also for some of you to be completely dumfounded as to what is on display. That is why I wanted to explain it fully; I wanted you to understand that it is what I say it is, and what the diarist wanted you to see. I only hope that the photos come out well enough for you to understand what I am showing you. I will, however, try to give you a brief description of what you are looking at, and how I came to the conclusion, anyway.

Kind regards,

Tempus

P.S. I will place the ‘FM’ on a new thread, as I want to start afresh.