Diary to Ripper letter handwriting comparison

[Soothsayer]

You just answered my question. You'll do nothing if it disproves your preconceived notion.

But whether Maybrick wrote only 1 line, 12, or 20, if he truly wrote them, they ought to appear verbatim in the diary.

Pretty well nails the hoax, I think, BTCG.

[Soothsayer]

I'm a new generation of Ripper student: I come into it after something has been conclusively proven in the case (and sorry, but we must admit this much, as much as we may dislike Ms. Cornwell), and I think this mindset must change.

This coming from a guy who is "pretty sure" McCormick's poem could not pre-date the 20th century.

I tell you, son, your trolling has got a long way to go, but you're learning from the absolute master.

[BTCG]

Can I just refer you back to the answer I just gave to this very question?

Don't you read these posts before you reply to them?

You just answered my question. You'll do nothing if it disproves your preconceived notion.

But whether Maybrick wrote only 1 line, 12, or 20, if he truly wrote them, they ought to appear verbatim in the diary.

[Soothsayer]

Let's move away from bits and fragments.

Riddle me this:

If Maybrick wrote it in its entirety, shouldn't the entirety be in the diary?

Is this much understood?

Can I just refer you back to the answer I just gave to this very question?

Don't you read these posts before you reply to them?

[BTCG]

Seriously, BTCG, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Can anyone help me out here?

Let's move away from bits and fragments.

Riddle me this:

If Maybrick wrote it in its entirety, shouldn't the entirety be in the diary?

Is this much understood?

[Soothsayer]

Sooth,

I don't wish to be mean to you, but you really ought to explore the meaning of my first post to you, as you truly cannot discern the phrase:

Distinction without a difference!

No one would debate the origins of the work. But it's apples vs. oranges as to Mr. Harris's point.

And you're obviously not alone.

Meaning no disrespect, here's my explanation. You people (I love saying that... say it down south here in the USA and people will reply "who you callin YOU people?") have dealt in supposition for so long that you see things entirely in those terms.

I'm a new generation of Ripper student: I come into it after something has been conclusively proven in the case (and sorry, but we must admit this much, as much as we may dislike Ms. Cornwell), and I think this mindset must change.

Seriously, BTCG, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Can anyone help me out here?

[BTCG]

There is no evidence that McCormick's poem was based on anything which went beforehand, nor even that it ever existed beforehand.

Your post seems to be saying that McCormick's poem was based upon something he read in James Maybrick's journal! I deduce this from the fact that you posed the question about why Maybrick didn't have the whole poem in the journal. Even if Maybrick wrote the whole poem, it is entirely irrelevant whether or not he wrote it in full in his Jack the Ripper journal.

A much more likely explanation to explain both James' and McCormick's 'whores' rhyme is that both were based upon a pre-existing rhyme about prostitutes - maybe the one quoted by McCormick or maybe some other.

Sooth,

I don't wish to be mean to you, but you really ought to explore the meaning of my first post to you, as you truly cannot discern the phrase:

Distinction without a difference!

No one would debate the origins of the work. But it's apples vs. oranges as to Mr. Harris's point.

And you're obviously not alone.

Meaning no disrespect, here's my explanation. You people (I love saying that... say it down south here in the USA and people will reply "who you callin YOU people?") have dealt in supposition for so long that you see things entirely in those terms.

I'm a new generation of Ripper student: I come into it after something has been conclusively proven in the case (and sorry, but we must admit this much, as much as we may dislike Ms. Cornwell), and I think this mindset must change.

[Soothsayer]

I think you're on to something.

People have always laughed at our state song "Maryland, My Maryland. The claim was it was written around 1869.

But if we apply your theory, it was truly written in 1824... thus disproving this.

I'll spread the word... Martin O'Malley is sure to knight you!

Help!

[Soothsayer]

That rang a bell, with me. I believe he's most likely correct.

Oh dear, the tears are still spilling down my cheeks!

So - if you're, say, 20 - there can be two versions of you if you go back in time a year, but not if you go back twenty?

How would your metabolism know? How would the space-time continuum realise?

I imagine Time probably keeps a journal.

[Soothsayer]

Pretty sure.

And... there's pretty much the elephant in the room: if Maybrick wrote the poem, shouldn't the entire poem be in the diary?

There is no evidence that McCormick's poem was based on anything which went beforehand, nor even that it ever existed beforehand.

Your post seems to be saying that McCormick's poem was based upon something he read in James Maybrick's journal! I deduce this from the fact that you posed the question about why Maybrick didn't have the whole poem in the journal. Even if Maybrick wrote the whole poem, it is entirely irrelevant whether or not he wrote it in full in his Jack the Ripper journal.

A much more likely explanation to explain both James' and McCormick's 'whores' rhyme is that both were based upon a pre-existing rhyme about prostitutes - maybe the one quoted by McCormick or maybe some other.

Only research will tell us ...

[BTCG]

And thus spake Zarathustra - another icon falls from the armoury of the Naysaying classes!

How many times has an ill-informed Naysayer thrown this little gem into the mixer and came up with 'hoax'? "The hoaxer got it wrong - Stephen Adams only wrote the music! That proves it's a fraud!" Well yell away ye infidels, for the journal ultimately never fails us. And why would it not? Surely - if it were written by James Maybrick, aka Jack the Apron - then of course it would be right. Logically follows! And the more it gets it right - despite the yelling of the Naysayers - the less the hoaxing argument can hold water. Livia - I can't knight you (we have strict rules on girls in our gang), but you are welcome to claim a Damehood from me any time you like. Just let me know which you'd like and it's yours!

How extraordinary that such a fact could be researched and demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt!

Sir Tempus o'Revelat and now Lady Livia of Somewhere-Yet-To-Be-Decided are smashing naysaying icons as though they were going out of fashion. Soon there will be no icons left, and - please please please - no Naysayers too!

Soothsayer
Darn Clever Chap and All That

I think you're on to something.

People have always laughed at our state song "Maryland, My Maryland. The claim was it was written around 1869.

But if we apply your theory, it was truly written in 1824... thus disproving this.

I'll spread the word... Martin O'Malley is sure to knight you!

[BTCG]

And, if BTCG is right, a diary-killer presumably. BTCG, how sure are you that the poem does not pre-date the 20th century?

Regards, Bridewell.

Pretty sure.

And... there's pretty much the elephant in the room: if Maybrick wrote the poem, shouldn't the entire poem be in the diary?

[BTCG]

Why not exactly?

Although Einstein believed it possible, we cannot, as of yet, travel in time.

Even if we could, I heard and interesting quantum hypothesis recently: if we do ever achive it, it's entirely sound to believe that we can no further back than to our own creation. That rang a bell, with me. I believe he's most likely correct.

[Soothsayer]

Might as well debunk this one too:

Michael Maybrick, at the start of his career, did write
his own lyrics. From his obituary:

(ISLE OF WIGHT COUNTY PRESS. Saturday August 30th 1913.)

Liv

And thus spake Zarathustra - another icon falls from the armoury of the Naysaying classes!

How many times has an ill-informed Naysayer thrown this little gem into the mixer and came up with 'hoax'? "The hoaxer got it wrong - Stephen Adams only wrote the music! That proves it's a fraud!" Well yell away ye infidels, for the journal ultimately never fails us. And why would it not? Surely - if it were written by James Maybrick, aka Jack the Apron - then of course it would be right. Logically follows! And the more it gets it right - despite the yelling of the Naysayers - the less the hoaxing argument can hold water. Livia - I can't knight you (we have strict rules on girls in our gang), but you are welcome to claim a Damehood from me any time you like. Just let me know which you'd like and it's yours!

How extraordinary that such a fact could be researched and demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt!

Sir Tempus o'Revelat and now Lady Livia of Somewhere-Yet-To-Be-Decided are smashing naysaying icons as though they were going out of fashion. Soon there will be no icons left, and - please please please - no Naysayers too!

Soothsayer
Darn Clever Chap and All That

[Livia]

Furthermore, Soothy...

The Twelve Days of Christmas: probably French in origin,
first appeared in England in about 1780.

One, two buckle my shoe: first published in 1805.



Might as well debunk this one too:

Michael Maybrick, at the start of his career, did write
his own lyrics. From his obituary:


"...Speaking at the Mayoral banquet at Ryde in 1911, when relinquishing the duties of Mayor, Mr. Maybrick said...

When he wrote his first song, 'A Warrior Bold', he was living in chambers. He had a bad cold and was unable to sing at Wolverhampton, where he had an engagement. While in bed he wrote the words and music of that song and took it to Mr. Arthur Chappell, of Chappell and Co. When the latter wanted to know what it was like he sang it to him. He said he would take five guineas for it, but Mr. Chappell said 'What! For an unknown composer?' It ended in his selling his first song for 5s. But there was a royalty attached, and that had gone a long way beyond four figures. Some time after he wrote 'Nancy Lee', he thought in 1878. That was also written when he was in bed, with a bad cold..."

(ISLE OF WIGHT COUNTY PRESS. Saturday August 30th 1913.)


Liv