All else aside, why Maybrick's unlikely....

[Jason]

I love the idea of it being real, i truly do.

One thing which sits uncomfortably with me is this. The diary conveniently ( at least from our perspective looking back at the crimes ) gives us a motive ( namely his loathing of his wife and her affairs ). This seems to almost aim to convince a reader of its authenticity, as though one was reading a script. I have perhaps not explained this well , but my issue is this. Would a man suffering from such mental pain write a diary which almost has an introduction, middle part and conclusion , as though it were indeed a fictional story ?

Hope this has come across as intended !!

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Finally, has anyone been able to compare the handwriting of the other Maybrick brothers, and also Alfred Brierley, with the writing in the Diary? Just a thought....

Yes; it's been done.

Michael makes an appealing Diarist but the guy was so so very protective of his image that I have trouble envisioning him laying claim to be the Ripper's brother, especially in a fictional work.

Melvyn Fairclough's current theory takes the Royalist theory and adds Michael Maybrick to the mix. I reserve comment.

Did you know Nutley died under the wheels of his carriage outside Michael's front door? You can't make this stuff up.

[Graham]

Yes; it's been done.

Michael makes an appealing Diarist but the guy was so so very protective of his image that I have trouble envisioning him laying claim to be the Ripper's brother, especially in a fictional work.

Melvyn Fairclough's current theory takes the Royalist theory and adds Michael Maybrick to the mix. I reserve comment.

Did you know Nutley died under the wheels of his carriage outside Michael's front door? You can't make this stuff up.

Sir Bob,

I think in a perfect world of mystery and subterfuge, someone like Michael Maybrick would pay handsomely for someone else to ghost-write a document like the Diary. I haven't seen Fairclough's current thinking, so can't comment.

Yes, I did know that Netley copped his lot outside Michael's Clarence Gate home. And in 1903, just before Florie was released from The Epiphany House at the end of her sentence. What we need is a coach driver who could be linked to Freemasonry, however tenuously...you know, someone who could've driven the coach around Whitechapel on the murder nights. What? John Netley outside Michael Maybrick's front door? Job done - include him in!

Graham

[Barnaby]

Back to probability, why don't we do it sports betting style? If I quite arbitrarily set the odds of the Diary being written by the murderer of at least one of the canonical five at 50-1 (meaning you would win $50 for every $1 you bet if you think its genuine and would have to bet $50 to win $51 if you think its fake), and then let the bets come in and adjust the line based on the bet volume (if more people are betting real, make the odds 40-1, if more say fake make odds 60-1, and keep adjusting) such that at the end of the day half the betters bet one way and the other half bet the other way, what would the final line be? Another way to express this is, in the collective wisdom of the Casebookers, what is the probability that the Diary is real? I think bets would even out at around 1000-1.

[Barnaby]

Come to think of it, odds on all the Suspects would be cool to do this way...

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Here you go Tempus, the 1911 census written and
signed by the head of household, in this case
Michael Maybrick.

I have Edwin's and Thomas' too. William was living
in a boarding house by 1911, his landlord completed
the form.

Liv

Thank you for that, Livia. It's always nice to see new samples of handwriting.

Personally I think there's a lot more out there to discover. It's such a shame that Cullum Street was hit in the blitz. I'm pretty sure there would have been one or two samples from there.


Kind regards,


Tempus

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Another way to express this is, in the collective wisdom of the Casebookers, what is the probability that the Diary is real? I think bets would even out at around 1000-1.

There ain't a lot of collective wisdom here, Barnaby. But I do like your idea very much.

There would need to be several categories of 'real' though. And we'd need the same for The Watch and a combo bet for both together.

Anyhow....

1) The Diary is real; penned by Maybrick who was Jack the Ripper.
2) The Diary is real; penned by Maybrick who was not Jack.
3) The Diary is real; penned by a family member or household employee etc etc who knew Maybrick was the Ripper
4) The Diary is old; penned by someone who didn't like JM very much.
5) The Diary is old; penned as "satire"
6) The Diary is "new"; penned after Fido's book.
7) The Diary is "newish"; penned before Fido's book.

Prop bet: Barrett as author. (50,000 -1)

And so on and so forth. My money is on #4.

[Scott Nelson]

If the diary was not written by Maybrick, but was
purposefully written, it seems to me that the most
likely reason was blackmail.

You're pretty smart, you know that, Livia?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Eight days is a short window of opportunity for blackmail.

Regards,

Simon

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

You're pretty smart, you know that, Livia

Livia is the authority on the "real" Maybricks and their delightful circle of fiends....er, friends.

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Eight days is a short window of opportunity for blackmail.

You lost me on this one, Simon. Care to elaborate?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs5qsk0pc6Y

[Livia]

Livia is the authority on the "real" Maybricks and their delightful circle of fiends....er, friends.

Thank you and Scott too.

But Caz is the resident authority around here
on all things Maybrick and diary related.

What I know, she's probably forgotten.

But I'd give my eye teeth (the spare pair I keep
in the drawer) to know what she knows...


...someday.

[Scott Nelson]

I know she is. Why you think I keep banging on about George Grossmith?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sir Robert,

The eight days between the date on the "diary" and the death of JM.

Regards,

Simon

[caz]

Hi Livia,

No, my dear, you are the resident authority on all things Maybrick. And as for the diary, I know as little as anyone else alive about who wrote it, when and why. I only claim to know some of the stuff that happened in relation to the emergence of the diary and subsequently. The rest is personal opinion.

You ask where's the humour in the diary if written as a satire. Maybe it's the difference between the British and American sense of humour, or maybe it's just me, but when I read it as if it was meant to be a spoof diary, the black tragi/comedy of the work just leaps from the page. I think the author was rather pleased with the effect they were going for, even if - like with the Goulston Street Graffiti - the purpose got lost somewhere in translation.

I think you are absolutely correct that most Victorians would have found the contents appalling (or at least they would not have admitted otherwise) but that never stopped the most appalling things being written for comic effect. It might explain why the diary could not have been hawked round London or Liverpool, with any expectation of finding a willing publisher.

Could you let me know your source for Weedon Grossmith spending his honeymoon in Aigburth in 1895? I can't access my books just now, but I thought it was his brother George. I do know that the pair got up to some quite puerile and mischievous practical jokes in their time, and I believe Battlecrease attracted many 'tourists' in the years immediately following the notorious trial. So I doubt it would have been beyond either of them to have tacked onto a group and sneaked something in during a tour of the house, as a prank that relied on its early discovery to achieve the greatest effect.

I have found no evidence that the Grossmiths and the Maybricks were acquainted, but at least Michael would have moved in similar circles, and all four may well have frequented the same gentlemen's clubs. George and Weedon would have noted any undue pomposity or vulgarity if they had come across the brothers Maybrick there, and James would have been an easy target for their idea of poking fun.

I'm not sure how a blackmail plot involving the diary is meant to have worked, or who it would have been aimed at, but I'm willing to consider all possibilities!

Love,

Caz
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