Inspiration for the Fake 'Diary'

[Kaz]

Barrett's claim to have written the journal - whether sworn or not - are no more reliable than his subsequent claims not to have written the journal. If you wish to cite either as evidence for or against Barrett's authorship, you need to do a little more than simply cite the version which most suits your argument.

Personally, I wouldn't trust the claims of an emotionally damaged and highly emotionally charged person, heavy with drink, irresponsibly thrown unexpectedly into the spotlight, whilst clinging desperately to the last of his family life and and thus his sanity (for his family appears to have defined his mental state throughout his long journey with the journal). I wouldn't trust those claims, full stop. The fact that his solicitor retracted them the next day would have immediately rewarded me for my intellectual caution.

What he said!

[Soothsayer]

Well his first sworn affadivit was pretty damming would you not agree

Barrett's claim to have written the journal - whether sworn or not - are no more reliable than his subsequent claims not to have written the journal. If you wish to cite either as evidence for or against Barrett's authorship, you need to do a little more than simply cite the version which most suits your argument.

Personally, I wouldn't trust the claims of an emotionally damaged and highly emotionally charged person, heavy with drink, irresponsibly thrown unexpectedly into the spotlight, whilst clinging desperately to the last of his family life and and thus his sanity (for his family appears to have defined his mental state throughout his long journey with the journal). I wouldn't trust those claims, full stop. The fact that his solicitor retracted them the next day would have immediately rewarded me for my intellectual caution.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Jonathan,

My guess is no better than anyone else's, as to who created it. And guessing is all anyone can do in the absence of a firm date for the penman/womanship and the absence of any potential suspects with even broadly similar handwriting.

I would tend to rule out rather than in, so for me out goes a post-1970 creation, and out go all the usual modern suspects.

Incidentally, Scotland Yard did investigate for fraud back in 1993 and came up empty. They did conclude it was probably a modern fake, but based that on the various 'expert' opinions doing the rounds at the time, rather than on any investigative work of their own. They couldn't pin anything on the Barretts.

Love,

Caz
X

Well his first sworn affadivit was pretty damming would you not agree

[caz]

Not being funny (and not knowing all of the the history behind this thread) are we talking a "Poste Restante" here, or something otherwise?

Dave

Hi Dave,

If I may answer this one, nobody knows what the diary author had in mind when writing about taking refreshment at the Poste House. But the only post in the dictionary with an e on the end is "Poste Restante", which could be why the author thought Post House should have an e too.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

To PaulB

When you write investigated turning up zilch, who did this investigating? You don't mean the police do you? The hoax never involved the fraud squad taking an interest -- have I got that right?

To Caz

Do you have a [provisional] theory, or subscribe to one, as to who created the Diary, and when?

Hi Jonathan,

My guess is no better than anyone else's, as to who created it. And guessing is all anyone can do in the absence of a firm date for the penman/womanship and the absence of any potential suspects with even broadly similar handwriting.

I would tend to rule out rather than in, so for me out goes a post-1970 creation, and out go all the usual modern suspects.

Incidentally, Scotland Yard did investigate for fraud back in 1993 and came up empty. They did conclude it was probably a modern fake, but based that on the various 'expert' opinions doing the rounds at the time, rather than on any investigative work of their own. They couldn't pin anything on the Barretts.

Love,

Caz
X

[Cogidubnus]

I do indeed recall that. Ah, happy days. :-)

Not being funny (and not knowing all of the the history behind this thread) are we talking a "Poste Restante" here, or something otherwise?

Dave

[Jonathan H]

To PaulB

When you write investigated turning up zilch, who did this investigating? You don't mean the police do you? The hoax never involved the fraud squad taking an interest -- have I got that right?

To Caz

Do you have a [provisional] theory, or subscribe to one, as to who created the Diary, and when?

[PaulB]

The Poste House in Cumberland Street was convenient to the Cotton Exchange as was the thoroughfare in Liverpool known as Whitechapel. Those were probably a couple of the ingredients that helped someone to mock up the Maybrick Diary, as the candidacy of James Maybrick as Jack conveniently all fell into place.

Probably, Chris. Probably. But who was that 'someone' and when did he/she 'mock up' the story. That's the question the lovely Caz is valiantly defending as still open.

[PaulB]

Hi Paul, Caz, and Jonathan

Okay yes the eight little whores poem is possibly from McCormick but I don't see much else. As I say, that dissertation is mostly an excuse for Harris to once more expose McCormick and not the Diary at all, so he goes on at length about Chapman and Levisohn and Le Queux. What he says was used in the Diary is Ryan's book not McCormick and that is only stated right at the end of his dissertation almost as if it is an afterthought.

All the best

Chris

Indeed. However, Harris did make a lot of noise on the message boards about "Eight Little Whores", and his story about threatening the angina-suffering McCormick with exposure as a fraud and charlatan on national television was to make the point that McCormick had, to Harris's satisfaction at least, acknowledged authorship of the rhyme. This, in turn, Harris used to demonstrate that rhyme in the diary was "Eight Little Whores" based. At least as far as I recall without wading through those dissertations again. I had enough of them first time round.

[PaulB]

As you know, Paul, the author misspells 'post haste' as 'poste haste', and there was a Post Office Tavern in 1888, just a short walk away from Central Station where Maybrick boarded the train home when working in Liverpool. So it's not clear whether Poste House is really an anachronism, or just a similar spelling mistake by someone referring to the old tavern as the Post House.

Love,

Caz
X

I do indeed recall that. Ah, happy days. :-)

[PaulB]

... then maybe somebody in Mike Barrett's circle?

For Chris George

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...ary/mb-mc.html

Ah, well, but who? Or why not somebody in Ann's circle? Or why not a 'friend' or a 'friend's circle. Or somebody who set Mike up. Or a gang that included Devereaux (the man in the pub) who slipped the diary to Mike and then inconveniently died before the gang could put the rest of the plan in operation. Or those pesky little green men from Mars foisted it on Mike? The trouble is that the range of possibilities are varied and numerous and most have been investigated as best they could be, turning up zilch.

[ChrisGeorge]

As you know, Paul, the author misspells 'post haste' as 'poste haste', and there was a Post Office Tavern in 1888, just a short walk away from Central Station where Maybrick boarded the train home when working in Liverpool. So it's not clear whether Poste House is really an anachronism, or just a similar spelling mistake by someone referring to the old tavern as the Post House.

Love,

Caz
X

The Poste House in Cumberland Street was convenient to the Cotton Exchange as was the thoroughfare in Liverpool known as Whitechapel. Those were probably a couple of the ingredients that helped someone to mock up the Maybrick Diary, as the candidacy of James Maybrick as Jack conveniently all fell into place.

[caz]

Hi Paul, Caz, and Jonathan

Okay yes the eight little whores poem is possibly from McCormick but I don't see much else. As I say, that dissertation is mostly an excuse for Harris to once more expose McCormick and not the Diary at all, so he goes on at length about Chapman and Levisohn and Le Queux. What he says was used in the Diary is Ryan's book not McCormick and that is only stated right at the end of his dissertation almost as if it is an afterthought.

All the best

Chris

Hi Chris,

The irony here is that Ryan himself couldn't see it, and in fact believed that Feldy was right.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

As I recall it was the little whores poem in particular. Among other non-McCormick anachronisms was 'tin matchbox, empty' and 'Poste House'.

As you know, Paul, the author misspells 'post haste' as 'poste haste', and there was a Post Office Tavern in 1888, just a short walk away from Central Station where Maybrick boarded the train home when working in Liverpool. So it's not clear whether Poste House is really an anachronism, or just a similar spelling mistake by someone referring to the old tavern as the Post House.

Love,

Caz
X

[ChrisGeorge]

... then maybe somebody in Mike Barrett's circle?

For Chris George

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...ary/mb-mc.html

Hi Paul, Caz, and Jonathan

Okay yes the eight little whores poem is possibly from McCormick but I don't see much else. As I say, that dissertation is mostly an excuse for Harris to once more expose McCormick and not the Diary at all, so he goes on at length about Chapman and Levisohn and Le Queux. What he says was used in the Diary is Ryan's book not McCormick and that is only stated right at the end of his dissertation almost as if it is an afterthought.

All the best

Chris