Inspiration for the Fake 'Diary'

[Henry Flower]

Caz, I could buy the abandoned novel idea if the diary were written in

(a) a modern A4 Pukka Notepad, 80 gsm, margin, feint ruled
(b) bic ball-point pen, blue
(c) unequivocally modern hand

But the materials used say it is clearly an attempt to deceive. An attempt by whom, to deceive whom, I don't know

[Jon Guy]

That's why the idea that the diary represents an abandoned novel - or some other kind of literary experiment - has always been an interesting one to my mind.

I think John Lennon may have written it, as exactly this, in December 1960.

[Henry Flower]

Even John Lennon would find it hard to imagine all the people falling for something like that...

[caz]

Caz, I could buy the abandoned novel idea if the diary were written in

(a) a modern A4 Pukka Notepad, 80 gsm, margin, feint ruled
(b) bic ball-point pen, blue
(c) unequivocally modern hand

But the materials used say it is clearly an attempt to deceive. An attempt by whom, to deceive whom, I don't know

Hi Henry,

Only if it was written at a time when 'the materials used' had ceased to be used by anyone for jotting down novel ideas. The best guess by the team of scientists commissioned in 1993 to prove the diary a modern (as in late 1980s) fake, was that ink met paper at some unspecified point in time 'prior to 1970'. With nothing better to go on, this would suggest it had been hiding somewhere, clearly not attempting to deceive anyone, for at least 23 years before it decided to do the dirty.

So 'clearly' an attempt to deceive would rather depend on when you have established the infernal thing was actually written.

If you could spill the beans I'm sure many people would be eternally grateful.

Love,

Caz
X

[Henry Flower]

Oh no. Science!

Hi Caz,

I thought you might say that!

I was about to start discussing the various contradictory interpretations of the various contradictory findings of various tests on the diary, but to be honest a tremendous sense of ennui came over me. A weariness. Feelings of futility.

So instead I'm just going to say... yes. You're absolutely right. I retract my comment. (Though later on when my energy returns I may retract my retraction, Barrett-style)

HF

[Bridewell]

Hi All,

I suspect the inspiration wasn't a particular person or event, simply the collection of contemporary Ripper letters. There is, after all, still discussion about which (if any) are genuinely the work of the killer, so why not chuck a bit of corn down and see who starts pecking? And boy did they peck!

Another possibility is the good old computer virus. Some people just like to disrupt things for other people. It makes them feel good. The diary could be seen as another version of the same thing.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Phil Carter]

Hi All,

I suspect the inspiration wasn't a particular person or event, simply the collection of contemporary Ripper letters. There is, after all, still discussion about which (if any) are genuinely the work of the killer, so why not chuck a bit of corn down and see who starts pecking? And boy did they peck!

Another possibility is the good old computer virus. Some people just like to disrupt things for other people. It makes them feel good. The diary could be seen as another version of the same thing.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hello Bridewell,

People attempting to pull the wool ouer people's eyes like a giant April Fool's joke in Ripperology? And perhaps make money out of it? Unthinkable.
People making up things in book form? Nah- impossible.
I predict we havent seen the last of the escapades....sadly.

Best wishes

Phil

[Bridewell]

Mischief

Hello Bridewell,

People attempting to pull the wool ouer people's eyes like a giant April Fool's joke in Ripperology? And perhaps make money out of it? Unthinkable.
People making up things in book form? Nah- impossible.
I predict we havent seen the last of the escapades....sadly.

Best wishes

Phil

You wouldn't even have to write anything to make money!
How much would a blank 1888 diary fetch on ebay, do you think?

Question to seller: Do you have a spare in case I make a mistake?!:

Best Wishes, Bridewell.

[Jonathan H]

With such a source the provenance must be uncluttered by false trails, confessions of deceit, fortuitous supporting artifacts and admissions.

On that basis the Dairy is clearly, glaringly a modern fake, and yet the hoaxer(s) are to be congratulated for first working out how to get around the forensic examinations (the debacle of the Hitler Diaries could have been their anti-Template).

If you had the powers of the police, you could check out who checked out books on the Maybrick trial in the years before the Diary surfaced. This was how American law-enforcers exposed Melvin Dummar's Howard Hughes hoax will in 1976, as his fingerprint was found on a book about an Hughes hoax.

[caz]

Hello Bridewell,

People attempting to pull the wool ouer people's eyes like a giant April Fool's joke in Ripperology? And perhaps make money out of it? Unthinkable.
People making up things in book form? Nah- impossible.
I predict we havent seen the last of the escapades....sadly.

Best wishes

Phil

Except that the joke seems to have been on the Barretts - the only two who would be directly implicated in a modern fake, and haven't they done well out of it - not!

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

With such a source the provenance must be uncluttered by false trails, confessions of deceit, fortuitous supporting artifacts and admissions.

On that basis the Dairy is clearly, glaringly a modern fake, and yet the hoaxer(s) are to be congratulated for first working out how to get around the forensic examinations (the debacle of the Hitler Diaries could have been their anti-Template).

If you had the powers of the police, you could check out who checked out books on the Maybrick trial in the years before the Diary surfaced. This was how American law-enforcers exposed Melvin Dummar's Howard Hughes hoax will in 1976, as his fingerprint was found on a book about an Hughes hoax.

The thing is, Jonathan (and it's diary, not dairy), what kind of 'uncluttered' provenance would you be looking for in order to support the scientists' view that it was written 'prior to 1970'? What clear provenance would you expect to be available for a document of this nature in the best case scenario?

It's hardly going to be listed in a catalogue, is it? Or on anyone's list of personal effects: "One Confession to the Whitechapel Murders, by James Maybrick, but in A.N.Other's Handwriting". It's not something that anyone should knowingly have had lying around the house, is it?

Yes, the issue of provenance has always been one of the biggest sticks to bash the diary with while intoning "glaringly modern"; but then it would be, wouldn't it? Think of the perfect provenance for an item like this and then use your highly tuned imagination to work out why it would not have come equipped with it to the public stage.

Love,

Caz
X

[Phil Carter]

Except that the joke seems to have been on the Barretts - the only two who would be directly implicated in a modern fake, and haven't they done well out of it - not!

Love,

Caz
X

Hello Caz,

In fairness, my post was a generalisation, tongue in cheek and I used the word 'perhaps' re money. Apart from that you are bang on in all you say. If anyone made money out of it, it wasnt the Barretts.

Best wishes

Phil

[Jonathan H]

To Caz

Yes, I've seen this before with your strange posts.

The Dodgy Diary is somehow your personal crusade, and so you react to anybody who questions its authenticity as if it is a personal attack on you?

[caz]

Now that is what I would call a very strange post, Jonathan.

If I 'reacted' to everyone who questions the diary's authenticity I wouldn't have time to fart.

Besides, what didn't you understand about: 'in A.N.Other's Handwriting' that makes you conclude that I don't question its authenticity?

I had better 'react' as if I have just personally attacked myself in that case, for saying that Maybrick didn't write it.

Lighten up Jonathan, at least neither of us is pushing a crackpot ripper theory of our own. You continue to push for Mac 'knowing' that Druitt dunnit, and I'll continue to challenge any unsupported gut feelings for the diary being a modern (as opposed to a pre-1970) hoax.

Is that fair enough?

Love,

Caz
X

[Jonathan H]

So you think the Diary is a Victorian or Edwardian fake, have I got that right?