picture of mary kelly's room

[mac-the-kipper]

Ok so let's all believe for a second that Maybrick was the killer. He (supposedly) writes his wife's initials on the wall in blood to, 'show her what he's capable of', as someone wrote. How is she supposed to see this? Was there a mail order service of murder scene photo's in the 1880's? Did he take his own polaroid snaps or did he use his mobile and txt her the images?

[Stewart P Evans]

Hi Stewart
Well, Dew has Beck staggering back from the window. And doesn't Dew say that it was the most harrowing memory of his career?
Also (speculation here) wouldn't there be a difference between, say, a policeman coming upon an isolated murder, and a policeman coming upon a murder committed by someone whom he'd been trying to catch for the last few weeks? Wouldn't everything become more personal?

I fear that this may well have been dramatisation for his book by Dew, writing some 40 years after the event. At the time of this murder Dew was a very young constable, whilst Beck was a uniformed inspector and would have been around the block a few times. It would certainly have made an impact on Dew because of his tender years but, any seasoned policeman would have been no more affected than, say, a doctor. Also, individuals do react differently to this sort of thing, some being affected more than others. As I said, I have seen worse in my time.

[Robert]

Hi Stewart

Well, Dew has Beck staggering back from the window. And doesn't Dew say that it was the most harrowing memory of his career?

Also (speculation here) wouldn't there be a difference between, say, a policeman coming upon an isolated murder, and a policeman coming upon a murder committed by someone whom he'd been trying to catch for the last few weeks? Wouldn't everything become more personal?

[Mitch Rowe]

Hi Richard, I have always thought that it is a line of blood that has run around her leg before congealing.

That was my thought on it too. Marys leg must have been relatively straight when the blood dripped. It probably happened before the Ripper gets to the stomach. He is probably doing the facial mutilations first so maybe then.

Anyway..The blood dries when her leg is straight.

[Victor]

Hi Richard, I have always thought that it is a line of blood that has run around her leg before congealing.

Hi Stewart,

That explanation makes sense especially as I (think I) can see a trail running down the shin in your photo in post #91.

I've always been confused as to what exactly MJK is wearing as there appears to be contradictions in the contemporary reports between she was naked, naked apart from some undergarments, and what could be bedsheets of some sort.

Is there anything that might confirm things one way or the other?

[Stewart P Evans]

Hi Stewart

Might the police not have been affected by the sheer smell? Also, what about Dew and Beck?

Hi Robert, the smell would have been no different to an autopsy and the police had to attend those as a matter of routine. What about Dew and Beck?

[Robert]

Hi Stewart

Might the police not have been affected by the sheer smell? Also, what about Dew and Beck?

[Stewart P Evans]

Blood

Hello Stewart,
May I ask you a question.?
What opinion have you when you look at Kellys right leg, is the mark a circular cut, or the top of a garter?
We have spent many a time on 'Casebook' discussing that question, personally i see it as a elasticated top of a stocking.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard, I have always thought that it is a line of blood that has run around her leg before congealing.

[Stewart P Evans]

I don't know how rigorous policing was in 1888, but I do know that whoever went in that room must have been overwhelmed with the carnage (and the thought of the carnage when the jury visited). I question whether it occurred to anyone at that time that serial killers might want to play games and leave clues, and therefore that they ought to look at shapes on the wall or walls for those clues.

A lot is made of the 'carnage' in Room 13 and how those seeing it would have been permanently affected. In nearly 30 years of police work I have seen a lot worse and I never did see a police officer overcome by what he saw. You just have to get used to such things and get on with the job. I am sure that most of the older police officers of 1888 would have been pretty hardened men. Still it makes for good movie-making to have a police officer stagger and throw up.

[Stewart P Evans]

Original

Stewart, the B&W (Rumbelow) version could hardly have been more clear. Were you drawing on the absolute original when you posted this? Do you still have access to it? Is what you posted what we would see if we had the original?

My copy of this photograph is a first generation copy made from the original back in the 1960s. The 'M' on the Rumbelow version has always appeared to be more distinctive than the sepia one but the vagaries of the two prints may be seen in the scans I posted on the 'crucifix' thread. I think this may be something to do with contrast. In truth, when viewing the original under a powerful glass it really does appear as random blood marks. Here is a scan of the 'M' only. Try copying my image here and blowing it up in your photo editing facility.



Obviously the fact that letters could be made out was an idea floated in 1988 and any subsequent fantasising about letters would, no doubt, have been instigated by that.

[Omlor]

Tom,

A.) We aren't actually "debating them." You are just saying over and over that they are there despite what everyone else has pointed out.

B.) They are not "clearly referenced" in the diary. You have taken vague lines which do not even mention Mary Kelly's room and extrapolated them out to be references to the photo because of your own desire. The diary does not mention any F or M on Mary's wall.

This is all just silliness.

--John

[Soothsayer]

If you consider the conditions that the photograph was taken - in a room that was probably not adequately lit for getting good pictures - then any lettering (if it existed) which showed up in the photograph would have been very obvious to those who saw the room at the time of the murder. The fact that nobody ever mentioned it, not the police or the press, leads to the obvious conclusion that there was no writing to see.

I don't know how rigorous policing was in 1888, but I do know that whoever went in that room must have been overwhelmed with the carnage (and the thought of the carnage when the jury visited). I question whether it occurred to anyone at that time that serial killers might want to play games and leave clues, and therefore that they ought to look at shapes on the wall or walls for those clues.

With the benefit of 120 years of rather unpleasant hindsight to draw on, we now know that killers are not averse to such games, and therefore everything gets analysed and recorded.

The 'FM' may very well be no more than random blood formations - but the fact that we are debating them, and the fact that they are clearly referenced in the diary, is the most deeply unsettling aspect of what otherwise not unreasonably is written off as a hoax.

[richardnunweek]

Hello Stewart,
May I ask you a question.?
What opinion have you when you look at Kellys right leg, is the mark a circular cut, or the top of a garter?
We have spent many a time on 'Casebook' discussing that question, personally i see it as a elasticated top of a stocking.
Regards Richard.

[stevey]

Ha, ha. Thanks for clearing this up for me.

I can get back to believing the murderer was George Hutchinson now.

[Omlor]

Thank you, Stewart, for bringing reason and good sense to the discussion.

Your knowledge about all of this is appreciated.

Of course, common sense and thoughtfulness can never trump individual desire and the will of blind faith, especially here on the internet.

All the best,

--John