Sarah Ann Robertson - the other Mrs Maybrick

[MrBarnett]

It appears that the census enumerator initially thought the head of the household was named Hartnett, but then amended it to Mrs Maybrick.

[MrBarnett]

I confess that I have no real interest in anything Maybrickian, but I can take my hat off to the people on this site who do some amazing research work.

Hats off to you all!

Certainly excellent work by RJ.

Perhaps I missed it, but how would Sarah have been William Hartnett’s stepmother in 1901?

[rjpalmer]

It appears that the census enumerator initially thought the head of the household was named Hartnett, but then amended it to Mrs Maybrick.

Thanks, Gary. It is puzzling.

Sarah Maybrick is living with the same Hartnett family in 1901 and 1911, described first as a stepmother and later as an aunt. The validity of either claim is not readily apparent.

(I see our posts have crossed)

William Hartnett married Hannah Reed in Deptford in 1891. He's described as a painter (same as in the 1901 census).





Her sister Eliza is the witness, which seems to indicate that they were the daughters of William Reed, a horse keeper in Deptford in 1881.

William Harnett, meanwhile, can be traced to No. 10 Seymour Street, Deptford in 1871. His father Alexander is an Irish laborer.

How any of these people are related to Sarah Maybrick is difficult to fathom. She's never quite who they claim she is.

[MrBarnett]

I thought the Hartnett’s might have an Irish background because I found a few Catholic marriages and baptisms in Deptford for people with that name and most of the witness and maiden names were Irish in origin.

Sarah certainly carries an air of mystery around with her.

I spotted this on the OP on this thread:

“She lived for a while on Bromley Street, near Whitechapel, and on Mark Lane, across the road from Whitechapel.”

I worked in Mark Lane many years ago, and although on the map it isn’t far from Whitechapel, it really was a world apart from the environs of, say, Commercial Street.

[erobitha]

Interesting research RJ. Definitely worth someone looking more into this. A few things that clearly don’t add up.

Who knows - maybe some further interesting information is out there.

Good work.

[erobitha]

Interesting research RJ. Definitely worth someone looking more into this. A few things that clearly don’t add up.

Who knows - maybe some further interesting information is out there.

Good work.

I know there is - who am I kidding.

Unfortunately the killer information (to me at least) is not my discovery to share, but I may have some other news on this from my own research in due course.

[erobitha]

This thread was abandoned 13 years ago, but since Sarah Ann Robertson's name has recently come up, I'd like to post an update of sorts, with a couple of things I've discovered.

In Chris Scott's first post, he has Sarah Robertson in the 1851 Census living with her 'aunt' in the Tower Hamlets. This is the woman who has been identified as Maybrick's first wife or mistress.

1851:
1 Pastern Row, Tower Hamlets
Head: Charles James Case aged 36 born Strand, London - Tobacconist
Wife: Christiana [Robertson] Case aged 31 born Sunderland
Niece: Sarah Ann Robertson aged 15 born Sunderland [about 1836]

For future reference, the marriage cert. shows that Charles James Case married a Christiana Lindsay Robertson.

Based on this 1851 entry, Paul Feldman and Keith Skinner speculated that Sarah wasn't really Christiana [Robertson] Case's niece, but her daughter, theorizing that the 'niece' designation was to hide the fact that the child had been born out-of-wedlock.

Feldman also writes that they couldn't find any earlier trace of Sarah Ann Robertson, nor any registration of her birth.

I think I can explain why.

As we can see, Christiana's middle name was Lindsay, which is one reason we know this is the same woman who was later in London and Deptford, married first to Charles Case, then to Thomas Conconi, and who was supposedly Sarah Ann Robertson's aunt. (Her name is listed as Christian Lindsay Conconi, for instance, in her 1895 death cert).




As can be seen, her father was Alexander Hay Robertson. He was born Edinburgh, Scotland.


In the 1841 Census, he can be found living on Flag Lane, Sunderland.


Three pages earlier in the same census, also on Flag Lane, is a woman whose name is given as Christiana 'Robinson' who has a daughter named Sarah.



I think this is why Feldman's team couldn't trace her. I suspect that this is actually Christiana Robertson and not Robinson, and her four-year-old daughter (with the correct birth year) is Sarah Robertson [Maybrick].

Besides the grandfather Alex. Hay Robertson living on the same street, and the name coincidences, there are three other reasons for believing this.

1. There are no birth registrations for a Sarah Robinson in Sunderland that fits this family, nor for the brother George Robinson, born 1840.

2. Nor is any such family listed in the 1851 Census for Sunderland.

3. There is, however a birth registration for a George Robertson, born in Sunderland in 1840, that would fit the above entry.




George Frederick Taylor Robertson. I suspect that 'Taylor' is the name of the birth father, and the child was born out of wedlock.

All of this tells me that the family in the 1841 Census is actually supposed to be Robertson, and that this is Sarah Robertson, born 1836, who was later Maybrick's first wife/mistress.

This shows, I think, that Feldman and Skinner were correct, and Christiana Roberston Case/Conconi was Sarah's mother and not her aunt.

By the way, how do you explain the year of birth for Christiana being wrong as well her name? We know from baptism records that Christiana Lindsay Roberston was born 8th November 1817 - four years prior to the one on the 1841 census as Christiana Robinson.

Surely she or the enumerator would not get both details wrong?

[MrBarnett]

Judging by how frequently adults are shown with ages ending in 0 or 5 on some early censuses, there seems to have been a practice of rounding ages up/down or guessing to the nearest 5 years.

[rjpalmer]

Surely she or the enumerator would not get both details wrong?

In case you're fairly new to genealogy, let me give you a tip: the enumerator very often gets everything wrong and sometimes people lie about their age or simply do not know it. Further, there is always the possibility the information came from a neighbor or a fellow tenant who was simply guessing, or the enumerator made notes before filling out the census form and couldn't read the handwriting afterwards. You have to piece together information and a hypothesis from various uncertain sources while keeping your wits about you, and, in the end, the truth is not always certain. It may not be her, but based on what we have, I suspect that it is.

By the way, how do you explain the year of birth for Christiana being wrong as well her name? We know from baptism records that Christiana Lindsay Roberston was born 8th November 1817 - four years prior to the one on the 1841 census as Christiana Robinson.

Yes, I noticed that--more in a minute. But it is only three years different, though. She was born/baptized 4Q of 1817 and the 1841 census wasn't taken until the night of June 6th. One thinks of an age as a whole number.

Second, I don't "explain it"--that suggests I have an agenda and am trying to squeeze the peg in the hole. I duly note the discrepancy and keep working.

But why do you think this poses a problem? Go back and study Chris Scott's initial post.

Once Christiana is in London, her ages are given as follows:

1851- 31 (born 1820 - the exact same year as my Christiana Robinson in the 1841 census)
1861- 42 (1819)
1871- 48 (1823)
1881- 59 (1822)
1891- 69 (1822)
1895- 75 (1820)

Hardly consistent, and not one of them accurately aligns with her actual baptismal date. Her birth years in these records range from 1819-1823. We know she was baptized in 1817. There is also the slight possibility (it sometimes happens) that an earlier child was born and died, and the parents used the name again for a later child. I've seen cases of this.

Anyway, as you can see from the first entry from 1851, she is down as having the same birth year as Robinson in Sunderland.

She probably lied about her age--many women do, and so do men.

The name 'Christiana' is not particularly common, and she's living down the street from Robertson's father, and Sarah's age is correct.

If you want confirmation, I would suggest ordering the birth record for George Frederick Taylor Robertson, born Sunderland in 2Q 1840. This should tell you the parents' name.

I was considering ordering it myself, out of curiosity, so if you plan on doing it, please let me know and I'll save myself the trouble.

As I say, I think she is the right woman, but I could be wrong; the birth record should prove or disprove the working hypothesis.

[rjpalmer]

Judging by how frequently adults are shown with ages ending in 0 or 5 on some early censuses, there seems to have been a practice of rounding ages up/down or guessing to the nearest 5 years.

Good point.

[rjpalmer]

Not to be rude to our friend 'Ike,' but since he is currently touring Scotland, and since Sarah Maybrick of Deptford twice gave her birthplace as Dumfriesshires, he could swing by the records offices and poke around and see what he can find.

I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of Maybricks born in Scotland, so if it is not the same woman, I'd be mightily surprised. I'd be floored.

So, Ike, if you're listening, (why do I sound like Donald Trump?) it is a lot to ask-- but it beats the heck out of sniffing for 'Maybrick' anagrams hidden inside the Goulston Street Graffiti.

A dose of reality would go you some good, mate.

[erobitha]

Not to be rude to our friend 'Ike,' but since he is currently touring Scotland, and since Sarah Maybrick of Deptford twice gave her birthplace as Dumfriesshires, he could swing by the records offices and poke around and see what he can find.

I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of Maybricks born in Scotland, so if it is not the same woman, I'd be mightily surprised. I'd be floored.

So, Ike, if you're listening, (why do I sound like Donald Trump?) it is a lot to ask-- but it beats the heck out of sniffing for 'Maybrick' anagrams hidden inside the Goulston Street Graffiti.

A dose of reality would go you some good, mate.

I may have a fly in that ointment RJ, hence why I wanted to run over your Christiana Robinson find a bit more.

I could possibly have a link that ties it all together. Look for Sarah Ann Taylor born 1837 in Sunderland.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Not to be rude to our friend 'Ike,' but since he is currently touring Scotland, and since Sarah Maybrick of Deptford twice gave her birthplace as Dumfriesshires, he could swing by the records offices and poke around and see what he can find.

I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of Maybricks born in Scotland, so if it is not the same woman, I'd be mightily surprised. I'd be floored.

So, Ike, if you're listening, (why do I sound like Donald Trump?) it is a lot to ask-- but it beats the heck out of sniffing for 'Maybrick' anagrams hidden inside the Goulston Street Graffiti.

A dose of reality would go you some good, mate.

I've just checked the phone book and apparently there are no Maybrick's listed for anywhere in Scotland.

Of course with mobile phones more people are not owning landline phones.

[rjpalmer]

I've just checked the phone book and apparently there are no Maybrick's listed for anywhere in Scotland.

Of course with mobile phones more people are not owning landline phones.

Too bad we don't have Paul Feldman bankrolling our research--at least his team got paid.

No, if this isn't the same Sarah Maybrick I'll eat my hat...and my shoes.

The name is very unusual. Sarah Maybrick from Sunderland doesn't disappear from Greenwich in 1891 and another Sarah Maybrick from Scotland suddenly appears up the road in Deptford thereafter.

I wouldn't think.

It's a weird household--I'll admit that. I've never seen such a strange collection of census returns. Why is Gertrude Blakiston from Portsmouth being called a daughter ?!??

Christiana doesn't appear to be riff-raff. She's got beautiful handwriting and she marries a tobacconist (former watchmaker) and a civil servant. Sarah Robertson works in what may have been an upscale jewelry store, Dewdney's. (A connection to the first stepfather?)

One can find a lot of adverts for Dewdney's in the 1850s and 60s. This is where Maybrick supposedly met her.




I imagine a young Jim Maybrick buying a gold watch in that store, hallmark 1860, with a great big J.M. engraved on it.

What was the dodgy Johnson watch? 'J.O.' circa 1846/47?

[rjpalmer]

I may have a fly in that ointment RJ, hence why I wanted to run over your Christiana Robinson find a bit more.

I could possibly have a link that ties it all together. Look for Sarah Ann Taylor born 1837 in Sunderland.

There were three children named Sarah Taylor born in Sunderland in 1837 +/- 1 year. (two in 1837 and one in 1838. Best info states that Sarah Robertson was born in 1836)

There are also two Sarah Taylors who died at the same timeframe--1837--which probably means in infancy, but I'm not about to order the death certificates.

The third is still alive in 1841 and is living in another household.

I'm not seeing any connection, or do you have something else?